Doctor who recommended Keto says it isn't great as a long term diet


(Edith) #21

The main idea that runs through just about every post on this site is n=1 experimentation. It seems to me, if your body is happy, your brain is happy, why change things up? If you start to have issues with sleep, not getting enough nutrients, then maybe change things up and try paleo. Maybe for now your body is happy.

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #22

THIS. Superb post @4dml. OP, take note!

I’ve always said that keto, LCHF, Atkins (all of which are just variations on a theme), all have a lot in common with everything from Ornish to vegan to whole30 to paleo to the Mediterranean diet… sure, we may disagree about macros, but all of them pretty much require you to eliminate sugar and processed carbohydrates.

Peter Attia has started saying that he’s now very reluctant to talk about diet, because diet is kind of like religion, and that if you’re following the basic principles (ie eat whole foods), in his estimation you’re 70% of the way there.

This pretty much solves the question of why all these other diets can work for a lot of people. They can say carb reduction is bullshit, or that high fat is bad for you, but the bottom line is that they’ve gotten rid of sugar and processed foods. In other words, carbs. I bet most of them have replaced at least part of that intake with healthy fats and/or protein. But even if they’re replacing it with carbs, those carbs are going to be of a higher quality and a lower GI. Bottom line is, they’re cutting out the very worst carbs.

Gary Taubes told a story, I can’t remember exactly where, about how he went to a conference and when it came to lunchtime there was a buffet and on one side of the room was the low carb buffet and on the other side of the room was the low fat buffet. And if you squinted, you couldn’t tell the difference between them.

(Ilana Rose) #23

I’ve never been overweight. I started keto about a year ago because for the first time in my life I was suddenly 20 pounds heavier and nothing I did would move the needle. I’d slowly put on the first 10 pounds over my 40’s and never could shed them but it wasn’t enough to make me depressed, I just accepted that I was getting older and that’s what happened. But then I turned 50 and it seems like another ten pounds came on overnight and I was miserable. Luckily my husband happened upon a Gary Taubes podcast and it started me exploring. Taubes led to Phiney and Phiney led to Fung and I felt I understood what was going on in my body.

So I started keto. Lazy keto but keto. I lost that first ten pounds nearly instantly and then with some intermittent fasting added in dropped the second ten over the course of a year. I have no weight related reason to stay on keto but I will NEVER leave it as long as I have no good scientific reason for thinking I should. I KNOW I’m healthier than I’ve been since my thirties.

My horrible migraines have stopped. I used to have several every single week.

My undiagnosed abdominal pain which had mystified doctors across a range of specialties for years and which required strong, mind-numbing, and addictive drugs to control subsided drastically in intensity and is nearly always entirely absent now. The awful drugs are history.

My energy levels are through the roof. I used to have hobbies that required a lot of long planning and thought and as I got older I just found I couldn’t bring myself to put in all the effort. I rationalized it as a loss of interest but with keto came back all my love for those hobbies and my life is sooooo much more interesting than it has been in over a decade as a result. Basically, I feel as good as I’ve ever felt in my life.

My mood has elevated hugely. I’ve always been a happy person but even that sort of declined as I aged. I now feel as bright and cheerful and full of ‘joie de vivre’ as I did at 20.

There are other minor things. Like my skin being softer than I’ve ever known it to be.

All these things convince me that I’m just plain healthier. No one is going to convince me that isn’t true without some good hard science to back it up. I’m a science nerd, I’m keeping on top of the evidence and so far there is nothing worth even a second glance to make me switch back to significantly more carbs.

Now, not everyone gets the same huge benefits, but if you think your life is way better since going keto, I don’t think there is any good reason to end it.


@4dml Agree with Gabe that this is a particularly good post!
I love this forum but sometimes I’m put off by the assumptions that there’s something inherently bad about all carbs, and that full-time keto is the the answer in all cases.

@FatBomb, I don’t think the OP’s doctor (or anyone on here) is recommending SAD.

If you’re in good shape metabolically, shifting your macros to be in and out of ketosis might be not just fine but actually a good idea for some people some of the time. Many folks thrive for years in ketosis, and many others thrive in what I think Mark Sisson refers to as a keto zone (in it much of the time but with the metabolic flexibility to be able to use different energy sources at various times for different reasons). T2D diabetic, severely insulin resistant for years? Then in and out of carbs is probably a lousy idea. Severe metabolic damage is sadly a very common situation in our modern world but it’s not a biological norm for humans.


At least to my understanding, insulin being lowered is the main reason of the many mental and physical benefits of keto, . Insulin is the heart of the matter, for keto. High insulin was the cause of all mental and physical problems that keto has solved and improved. So if your insulin is naturally low already (or has been brought back to that naturally low state by keto) and drops fast enough after eating, there is no point to do keto. You’re already having all benefits caused by being naturally low in insulin.

(Jay Patten) #26

@margot17, I get that keto is not necessary for people who don’t have insulin problems.

However, keto offers health benefits not related to insulin, as well.

For example, my sister in law is quite lean and cross fits several times a week. But she has dangerously high blood pressure. Keto is excellent for lowering blood pressure.

Thin people can also have high cholesterol, particularly triglycerides, which keto can help lower significantly.

Some new research is also suggests that certain cancers grow faster when “fed” high glycogen diets.

Keto is also excellent for skin & connective tissues and is anti-inflammatory.

And since there is no medical need for carbohydrates or sugar in the human diet, one can assume that eating a high-fat, low-carb diet is better than eating a low-fat, high-carb diet regardless of waist size.

(Aimee Moisa) #27

Which Regeneration of the Doctor was it? You can ignore anything the first Doctor says, he is immature and a bit of a jerk, but I really like the 10th Doctor. He is sweet and kind. And sexy. :wink: I am looking forward to getting to know this next Regeneration. I have always preferred having a woman Doctor.

(Aimee Moisa) #28

Sorry, I had to.

Any time I see a sentence with the phrase “doctor who” in it I have to get my Whovian geek on. :slight_smile:

I didnt even read your post, I will go do that now. "Bad Aimee! Not reading the post before commenting! Naughty naughty Aimee! "


All I can say is, I’m pretty damn sure the rest of my life will be a lot healthier if I stay on keto than if I would stay on the godawful SAD diet that I wrecked my body with over the first five decades…

(Ilana Rose) #30

I knew I was forgetting something important in my list of improvements. My blood pressure before keto was very high, 150/90. My doctor was not medicating me for it and I never understood her reasoning but it bothered me a great deal every time I saw it. It’s possible it’s come down for some non-keto related issues For example pain ratchets up BP and I was in a lot of pain. However, it’s now back to where it was 5 years ago hovering right around 120/80. I couldn’t be more happy. :smiley:

(Chelsea Barnett) #31

My mom brought the same concerns to me. She was wondering about how this could affect me long term with all of the extra fat in my diet.

(Raj Seth) #32

That there is the problem with our current intuition - it has been deranged by over a half century of being lied to.

(Chelsea Barnett) #33

I tried explaining to her all of the health benefits. But she is worried about long term. Like blocked artery or heart attack lol But I told her I am eating way healthier than before the diet. So I think I’m good;)

(Chelsea Barnett) #34

Are there any doctors on this forum ? I wish I had a doctor as a friend lol

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #35

I’d like to expand on my previous comment.

My goals are always evolving. It started as weight loss and composition. I am nearing my weight goal (I may be there. I haven’t decided). I would like to eat seasonally and locally. I currently have two plums, about 100g minus pits, on my desk, that I got at the farmer’s market. I can maintain ketosis having eaten them, at about 10g of net carb. They are delicious. Sweet, sour, wonderful balance.

I think about the larger world of nutrition… Loren Cordain, Weston A. Price. Dr. Mike Eades, and Dr. Mary Dan Eades. Apply a paleolithic lens to look at nutrition, and a cyclical/seasonal approach to your food. I find that I already kind of do cook with the seasons, eating lighter meats more in the summer, cooking on the grill, more fruit. And as the seasons turn, the menu changes, reflecting my desire to be outside for cooking, my desire to heat my house with some extended oven run, and so on. And I think this is how it was 100 years ago, 250 years ago, 1000 years ago. And really, if you think about it, the seasonal availability of the gather would drive the hunting in your pre-agricultural ancestors. No raspberries from Mexico in the winter. No apples from who knows where in the spring.

So, I live here, I like living here, and I want to eat things from here, when they are at the peak of freshness. And I don’t know that I need to trade much of anything to do so. These plums were tasty. And, for me, keto. All traditions represented, consumed after some thin pork chops I cooked this past weekend. So, come the cold season here, stricter keto. Here, in the summer and the fall, a bit more of the natural bounty. Because that was the seasons then, and it kind of makes sense now.

I have genetic potential for T2DM, based on relatives. I have never had an A1C in that range, but carb reduction clearly works to move the scale, so maybe I’m just less disordered, not undisordered. But, this plan has great appeal, while also keeping carbs low, maybe as much as 15% of total calories.

(Omar) #36

The world leading doctor( Dr Google ) is your friend.

He does not get tired or board until you do.

(Doug) #37

He seems to contradict himself a good bit, though. :smile:

(Omar) #38

Even though the doctor did not provide scientific proof.

But let us say what he is saying is true.

what my life is worth with progressing type II and the consequences of insulin resistance and metabolism problems ? what other choices do I have ?

At least I will live with dignity for this named “long term” of unknown length rather than horrified with this big list of chronic diseases of metabolism issues consequences.

(Omar) #39


that is because mother nature wants us to work and evolve

nothing is free

(Chelsea Barnett) #40

Haha Dr Google gets me in trouble. I go to Google and find out I have all of these new diseases and might be dying. Loo