Do you worry about not eating enough vegetables? For health reasons


(Sarah Herlihy) #1

I love the keto WOE and it has changed my life. I eat a lot of butter and a lot of salty things these days and i feel amazing. I love fruit and vegies though and am ok without fruit as i think i was a sugar previously gorging myself on apples and pears. Not having them i think is a good thing. Going low to zero carb though do you worry about not getting enough goodness from vegies. I now only eat low card veg in moderate portions but is this healthy? Some days i would be happy to have fat and eggs only but just fret of the heart attack looking if i dont have at least something green.

What are your thoughts? Does anyone else thing this way?


#2

I think if we get back to the roots of seasonal eating, meat and fat would be the majority. Berries in the summer, apples and pears autumn. It would probably mean for most that sugary things would only be available naturally for a very short window each year.


(Sarah Herlihy) #3

I dont eat meat so i think maybe i think about produce a little more than the average bear. You make perfect sense though.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #4

It is possible to live completely without vegetables. The Inuit did it, the Masai do it, and many isolated tribes and island peoples discovered over the last fifty years were eating only protein and fat until they met the modern world and changed their diet (acquiring the “Western” diseases in the process).

The classic experiment was performed at Bellevue Hospital in New York in 1927 on two explorers, Vilhjalmur Stefansson and his friend Peter (?) Andersen. They had spent a few years among the Inuit in Canada, eating their traditional diet, and no one in the New York medical establishment believed their story, so several doctors challenged them to live only on meat and fat under supervision for a year. They did it, living at Bellevue hospital (locked up, at first), and the only problem they had was one day several months in, when they allowed themselves to be persuaded to eat lean meat and no fat. They felt awful for a while, but some fat perked them right up.

Stefansson, in his book, The Fat of the Land, describes how the Inuit ate primarily organ meats, and gave the lean muscle meat to their dogs. They considered vegetables to be unworthy of consumption by human beings. It turns out that in ketosis the body handles Vitamin C differently and needs much less from outside sources. Also, the fat of organ meats is a great source of vitamins from the B complex. Dr. Phinney recounts in one of his lectures that Stefansson retired to a small New England village and stayed keto to the end of his life, joking that it was good that he was the only one in the village who ate fat, because the local butcher gave it to him for free, instead of throwing it out. If I recall correctly, he died in his late eighties or early nineties in 1962.


(MooBoom) #5

YES!!! I find a way to make veggies a substantial part of lunch and dinner everyday or I feel like utter rubbish. Still manage to keep my carbs at 20g a day. I also get most of my fat from olive oil, avocado, coconut oil, full fat yoghurt, cheese, olives, nuts/seeds and avocado as opposed to lots of fatty meat ( I tried- just could handle it!). Still managing to eat low carb, moderate protein and high fat and it’s working out great. Keto doesn’t mean you must get your fat from flesh all the time, figure out what works for you I reckon and KCKO! :blush:


(MooBoom) #6

It is possible, but I don’t think that means it’s applicable to everyone. The western lifestyle is very different to the innuit and masai lifestyle, we are less physcially active and live in a much more polluted environment. Not saying we can’t do it, just saying perhaps everyone needs to figure out what their body individually can tolerate. n=1 :relaxed:


(Sarah Herlihy) #7

Paul - This is so interesting. So well written too!


(Sarah Herlihy) #8

Thanks Moo. I just love veggies so so much! I am trying to do more olives and avocado but i am obsessed with butter it seems! Its my go to for fat.


(MooBoom) #9

Did I forget to mention butter? I love butter :yum:


(Sarah Herlihy) #10

Veggies and butter - perfect meal. Love it. Oh and nut butter - do not even get me started. Its my weekly cheat meal.


(MooBoom) #11

MMMMMMmmmmmmm yes to nut butter too!

I make a wicked organic tofu and veg satay/curry with buttloads of coconut oil, almond butter, coconut cream, green veg and curry paste with vietnamese mint/ginger/garlic/chillies. Served with a dollop of full fat greek yoghurt, heaven! And totally low carb, moderate protein and high fat! You don’t need to eat half a cow to be keto, unless you want to :slight_smile:


(Sarah Herlihy) #12

I have never been into tofu as in a previous life i was strictly raw whole food and i worried about the whole soy processing thing. I should try it again though being vego. I am going to crack out some holoumi this week. I havent had it in about 5 years and it was always one of my favourite foods. Holoumi salad, sooo good.


(MooBoom) #13

I am conscious of that too, and only buy quality firm organic tofu (I can’t say if that actually makes it better or just makes me feel better about it, but it seems to agree with me so far!). My tip- chop it into bite sized cubes, coat in olive oil then spread evenly out on a baking paper lined tray and roast until crispy.

Yes to haloumi! Also persian fetta, blue cheese, cottage cheese, ricotta- OMG is it lunchtime yet lol?!!?

And pumpkin seeds- toasted in a hot pan and scattered over iceberg lettuce, red onion, avocado, cucumber and fetta with lashings of homemade vinaigrette (and crispy bacon for me…)

Yep- definitely lunchtime now :joy:


(Brian) #14

I’m glad there are a lot of varieties of eating keto under this big tent of ours. Some eat lots of meat, some eat no meat. Some eat lots of veggies, some eat no veggies. I think each has to find their place and figure out where good nutrition lies in the foods that they do eat.

I’m in the camp that eats lots of veggies. I rarely have anything very starchy or sugary but on occasion, a few baby carrots may slip by, or a strawberry or two (perhaps dipped in chocolate), maybe even a sprinkling of some kind of beans when making a taco salad.

I honestly hope that at some point, I can incorporate a bit more fruit back into the diet as well as a few of the veggies that are mostly avoided now, not necessarily as staples, but more as condiments. Right now, I’m in fat burning mode and am more strict about it. Once closer to ideal weight, I feel like there might be more room to include some additional carbs, even staying mostly with a keto way of eating. I think my body will give me some pretty good clues as to how much is too much when I get to that point. Where I may only get 20g to 30g of carbs today, I may find that 60g or even 80g will not be a problem. Again, gonna let my body tell me when I get there. If bumping up that high is a problem, I’ll knock it back down. I feel pretty certain there will be occasions when something like a fresh peach, fully ripe, right off the tree, will overpower any dedication I may have to a keto way of eating. Doesn’t mean I’ll do it every day…

That might be blasphemy or heresy to some people. Don’t know. But it’s a path I sorta have to find for myself. :slight_smile:


(MooBoom) #15

@bellyman
I love everything you just posted- and echo your goals and philosophy 100%. :raised_hands:

PS I still manage to squeeze in a few organic mixed berries almost every day and stay within limits, sometimes you just have to shoe horn the good stuff in!


(Michael Wallace Ellwood) #16

So, nearly 83. Not bad, but not quite as good as Linus Pauling.

Karsten.

I read a fair amount about Stefansson when I did LCHF first time around. From what I read, he didn’t remain zero-carb for the all the rest of his life, but reverted to a more normal diet for that time. However, then in later life, he seemed to suffer the symptoms of arthritis, and went zero-carb again, which seemed to help. I’m not sure if he then remained zero-carb after that.
(This is from memory, and I’m happy to be corrected).

Personally I can take or leave vegetables, and don’t feel I have to have them.
But I do eat organ meats fairly regularly, which may compensate for some of the nutrients that might otherwise come from vegetables. (Edit: I also consume bone broths, but not so regularly, as they are a bit of a faff to make, and the better half objects to the fumes…).


(Keto in Katy) #17

I’m keto four years now, and although I have enjoyed many veggies all my life I find now that a little fatty meat is usually all I want, or eggs.


#18

I’ve choked down a lot of veggies in my life (kale was the worst) believing they would make me healthier. Some fruit also which is much more palatable but does a number on my hunger level.

I only eat from the animal kingdom now and have no illnesses or conditions. My last blood test was perfect. When others around me are catching the flu or a cold, I’m fine. I take one supplement called Natural Calm to help me sleep better, but I took that when I was still eating fruits and veggies.

(Geez, this response sounds like I’m full of myself.)


(Adam Kirby) #19

I barely even eat vegetables anymore, and don’t particularly miss or want them.


(Regina M.) #20

If you want to eat lots of vegetables, you can. Just choose very low carb ones. I’m not talking about cauliflower or broccoli which are great in moderate amounts. If you want to eat a huge pile of veggies, choose leafy greens like spinach, mustard greens, or my favorite of all time broccoli raab (rapini). Yesterday I had a stir fry with pork and 300g of broccoli raab. It was a single net carb.

A lot of people who sing the praises of no carb never liked vegetables anyway. No, you don’t have to eat vegetables, but if you want to eat them, go for it. 3 eggs scrambled in butter with 150g of spinach and 100 grams of mushrooms is 5g carbs. Add bacon and that’s one of my staple breakfasts. I really feel like having a green smoothie this morning with spinach, avocado and hemp seeds. It will probably end up around 6 or 7 net carbs. If I feel like having a 20 carb meal, I just plan for it by have very low or zero carb for my other meal(s) that day. Go ahead, eat your greens.