Do you ever discourage anyone from going keto?

(Brian) #1

The question may seem like heresy, but I wondered if I’m the only one that ever wrestled with this one?

The situation is like this. I have some friends that have watched me lose 70 pounds and get a lot healthier after turning my diet on it’s head a little over a year ago and diving full force into the ketogenic way of eating. And when I did it, I did it. I didn’t cheat. I kept my carbs low, probably 20g to maybe 30g most days and stuck to it when other people thought I would be giving up any time. I’ve done well.

My friends, however, decided they were going to go keto. I’m not exactly sure the extent they “went keto” but it seemed like they were constantly cheating. They basically picked up a lot of meat and dietary fat but never let go of the carbs. Yikes. I’ve seen how they eat. And they eat some good things. But the potatoes, the bread, the rice, the biscuits and gravy, the desserts (as in real sugar), they never went away.

So today, they had breakfast with my wife and I. They just came from their doctor (a plant-based vegan advocate) and were told they were abusing their gut and that their cholesterol numbers and weight were not good and they needed to get off of the “keto” diet.

UUGGGHHH!!!

First of all, I can pretty much guarantee they were never on the keto diet. And I wasn’t in a position to lecture. I am not doctor or nutritionist. I know I’d rather not have gone to that particular doctor anyway but she’s cute and goes to their church, two things they like (yes, he mentioned cute, not me, I couldn’t care less what she looks like but apparently, he cares). Second, I really believe that they know darned good and well what keto is and they just didn’t do it. They’re not stupid. They know what carbs are and they know what kinds of foods are high carb. They continued to eat them anyway.

With all that said, I did not encourage them to continue with keto. I basically wished them well with following their doctor’s advice and hoped they could get the weight and their numbers where they wanted/needed them to be. To my way of thinking, if they’re not going to get onboard with keto 100%, maybe it’s better that they head in the other direction with HCLF because we all know that middle ground isn’t a good place to be. I think they’ll listen to their doctor (compliance) way better than they’d ever do real and genuine LCHF.

I hate the situation but they’re friends and I don’t want to see them do more harm than good following keto half way. Anyway, I wondered whether any of you might have already been down this road…

(Richard Hamilton-Gibbs) #2

Tell them: the keto diet is high fat, moderate protein, and low-carb.

I’ve been on a ketogenic diet for 22 years to combat very serious health conditions. I never discourage people from doing a ketogenic diet, but I’ll be the first person to tell them that they’re doing it wrong! :slight_smile:

Ask them where they’re getting their education from. If they tell you they’re just winging it, then you can guarantee they’re on a long, slow, dangerous learning curve. Dangerous? Yes, because Big Food is polluting the Internet with disinformation and funding bloggers and vloggers who sabotage the keto lifestyle.

(Brian) #3

Thanks, Richard.

I’ve already told them and they’ve repeated it back to me, from various sources, exactly what the keto diet is. They know. They just won’t DO IT. They’ve played at it for probably 3 or 4 months and now have decided it doesn’t work for them. I seriously doubt they’ve ever been in ketosis, ever, either one of them. You just can’t get there eating buscits & gravy, for breakfast and a big piece of apple pie and a half pint of ice cream for lunch… heaven knows what supper will be. UUGHH!! (And yes, I’ve watched similar things happening numerous times in numerous places. And they know exactly what they’re eating. Like I said, they’re not ignorant of where carbs come from.)

I think I kinda get why a doctor might be wanting to give them medication of some sort to deal with things. They’ll take that. They won’t comply with a diet they don’t want to comply with even if that alone would fix everything that’s wrong.

I was all in. I had a sense deep down inside that if I kept going on that HCLF spiral that I wasn’t long for this world. For me, it was either do it and do it right or put my affairs in order. Maybe it wasn’t as bad as I make it out to be, maybe it really was. Regardless, I wasn’t playing. And despite being a more lazy keto than many, I’m still not playing at it.

Maybe my dear friends are just not able to control themselves well enough to actually give keto an honest chance. Some people can’t. They are often in situations where they’re eating around and with people who are serious carb and sugar eaters. I feel bad for them. But I can’t make them do something they just don’t want to do. There are people who would rather die than fix a bad habit. I’ve watched people literally kill themselves. It rips my heart out. I can suggest. I can beg. I can share information. I can offer friendship and emotional support. But if they’re determined to hang on to that habit, whether it’s alcohol, cigarettes, or carbs & sugar, in the end, they’ll get their way.

(Sophie) #4

I had a friend that tried it on advise from her doctor (I know, can you believe it?!) and she only lasted about 3 weeks. She told me she couldn’t tolerate the runs. I think she wasn’t able to get the sugar monkey of her back was more like it.

(Brian) #5

Thanks, Sophie,

Interestingly, one of these friends has some kind of IBS, I don’t know all of the details. The other has a history that is rather alarming as it relates to heart disease… and he loves his ice cream. I would think ketogenic eating would be a godsend for them with controlling inflammation and similar things. We’ll probably never know. :frowning:

(Tom Seest) #6

I rarely encourage anyone to eat a ketogenic diet, but I do encourage them once they are eating that way.

I figure they really need to find their own health aims and motivations, and one they are on the path; I can help push them along the way…

(Brian) #7

Thanks, Tom.

The whole situation is really making me think about how much I should disclose and just what I should and shouldn’t say to friends. I certainly want to do no harm.

I did share lots of keto recipes. And the lady is an awesome cook. The things they did keto were top shelf. But the carbage just never went away. Thing of it is, even if they go back to HCLF, I suspect there will still be the ice cream that will just magically find it’s way into their freezer week after week, and I don’t mean low-carb / sugar free, along with all of those wonderful whole grains along with lots and lots of fruit. :confused:

Kinda makes my stomach churn. I feel like I’m watching someone headed towards disaster. I can only hope I’m wrong and they’ll find a better path.

(Running from stupidity) #8

Neither of those professions (in general) know much about actual nutrition, so I wouldn’t let that stop you. I certainly don’t let it stop me…

(Laurie) #9

At different times I’ve eaten very much like your friends do. Lots of keto principles plus lots of other stuff. Yes, I gained a lot of weight. No, I don’t think I’d discourage anyone from eating one way or another. I don’t appreciate it when others make such suggestions to me.

According to Helen Gurley Brown, her husband, the producer David Brown, combined a bunch of different diets, so he was able to eat and drink everything he wanted! He lived to age 93, but not everyone can get away with this.

(Brian) #10

Thanks, all. I appreciate your sharing your thoughts.

(Hyperbole- best thing in the universe!) #11

A friend of mine likes to say, “You don’t change when you see the light, you change when you feel the heat.”

My philosophy on this one is that I will tell people what I’m doing. And if they want advice after that I’ll give it. If half-assing keto gets them to reduce sugar and carbs and not fear fats maybe it will do some good. But adding fat without reducing sugar is a recipe for disaster. So I’d have done the same as you in this situation. You already gave them the knowledge. They have to make the decision.

(Wendy) #12

Just because they called it keto, they weren’t eating keto. But if they know what it is and choose not to do it, what can you do?
It’s just sad how many people think they know what keto is and judge it inaccurately. Or think they have given it a try but never really do. Your friends are just one of these.

#13

Agreed! I always make those people VERY aware that they were never eating keto to begin with. I’m not helping one more person onto the “I tried keto, and it doesn’t work” wagon.

(Sheri Knauer) #14

Have you actually shared with them the harm they are doing by eating high fat and high carb? They may know what the keto diet is, although not doing it, but is it possible they are unaware of the possible health consequences of how they are eating? Just a thought.

#15

That’s my position as well. If someone asks, I’m glad to give them a very brief intro on what it is. If they follow up with questions then I’m happy to engage. If I get a dismissive or authoritative response then we’re done.

(Brian) #16

Yes, we did talk about how eating even the good fats without giving up the sugars is a recipe for disaster. Ultimately, their doctor confirmed that for them. (They didn’t believe me, or 100 other sources way bigger than me, but they’ll believe the doctor.) So now, they’re giving up their warped version of “trying keto”, and honestly, I’m glad, it’s not real keto they’re leaving behind. It’s more like the “low carb” group in the study that said low-carb people die younger. Their low-carb group was actually high carb, compared to higher carb and highest carb. If they’re gonna eat the sugars, which they’ve demonstrated that they can’t leave behind, the fats don’t combine well with them.

If they weren’t my friends and I didn’t love them dearly, it wouldn’t be so hard. I don’t really see it ending well but maybe there will be a chance that some “heat” down the road will open up reception to the idea of real, genuine keto. If being honest, though, I suspect they’ll die with a fist full of pills in their belly, early, and unnecessarily. And in that, I hope I’m dead wrong, really I do.

It is sad when psychology trumps physiology. I basically saw my mom decide to die. It took a year of misery but she finally got her wish. I think most who go that route are way more subtle about it. But it still yanks on my heart when I see it.

Thanks again for all of the kind words. Much appreciated.

#17

Brian, thanks for sharing your experience with your friends. I would have done the same thing. You really weren’t discouraging them from going Keto. It seems you decided you would not become an enabler for their lies and support the notion that they were doing Keto when they really were doing an unhealthy HCHF diet.

Man, it tears your heart apart when those you care about who could really be helped by Keto refuse to see the solution which is right in front of their freaking face. It must have been extremely frustrating for you in this case since they agreed to do Keto, yet refused to really do it.

So to answer your question, in general I would say “no” but in this case, I would say “yes”. I would have discouraged your friends from going Keto. You really weren’t discouraging them from going Keto; you decided you would not continue to encourage them since it was obvious they are not going to do it. It is ultimately up to them what they are going to eat and how they are going to live. It is still very frustrating.

I have been able to successfully encourage a few members of my family to do Keto, but most of them, not so much. Many of them have health issues that could be resolved with Keto but they are not interested. It is frustrating!

(Vladaar Malane) #18

I don’t purposely discourage anyone, but I found some people.

COUGHCOUGHwifeCOUGHCOUGHdadCOUGHCOUGH have issues with the fact that I stumbled across something that works. Now if their friends told them, or they found it out themselves yeah sounds great.

But that’s what I tell people I’m no genius, just was blessed to stumble across keto and much smarter people than me figured this out.

(Brian) #19

Thanks so much for your reply, Dave!

I could have probably phrased the question / title a little better but you understood perfectly where I was coming from.

So far, I don’t think I’ve led anyone to keto. I’ll KC and KO. Who knows, maybe someday, I will be able to help someone else. Hope so. If not, maybe I’ll be able to do some good things in other ways, to make the world just a tiny bit better place in some way… despite my shortcomings… which are more than I wish they were…

(Clara Teixeira) #20

Any of my friends or aquaintences who ask about it get a handful of good links to look at and podcasts to listen to and I tell them to thoroughly research the diet before attempting it. I try to specify that they can’t keep eating lots of carbs if they go high fat. Seems most of it goes over their heads and I’ve given up on most of them. I get that it takes a lot of willpower at first so a person has to really want to get healthier to truly stick with it.