Do you build tolerance

(Louis) #1

I’ve decided to eat one day a month and eat what I want. I’m including carbs and sugar. I know I knock myself out of ketosis / fat adapted for about a week. I’m ok with that. Question is doing this with frequency do I build some sort of tolerance. Perhaps I don’t burn fat as efficiently or instead of 7 days that can turn to 14.

#2

How long have you been doing keto? And why do you want to build a tolerance?

#3

Pretty much what we refer to as “metabolic flexibility” and in short, yes. But if you eat strict keto all the time and only once a month eat normal… and if normal is binging on crap then you’re more likely to just get the bad side of waking up with carb hangover. If what you’re going for is the ability to seamlessly walk between the two worlds without any push back from your body it’s a little bit more of a process.

(Elizabeth ) #4

I’m curious as to why this is in a zero carb carnivore post? Thank you I found as a moderator in a couple of older zero carb groups that some people take as much as 6 months to get adapted, and metabolic flexibility isn’t all it’s made out to be :slight_smile: More power to you if you can eat carbs and sugars but most of us that stay this way for a long time it’s because of health

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #5

I find that if I exceed a very low level of carbohydrate intake, my arthritis and my aches and pains return, and getting out of bed in the morning becomes a chore again. It is a good incentive to avoid that nasty stuff.

#6

Are you zero carb? Cause it is in the zero carb section :slight_smile: :slight_smile: and we zero carb people ain’t gonna do that :wink:

Also why? Why do you want a day to eat whatever? Is it cause you are feeling deprived? Feeling like you are missing out? Carbs still screaming eat me and you are trying to find that ‘safe way’ to have them back without much damage to your plan? Just curious on that :slight_smile:

I know you are looking for some type of ‘good thing all about cheating’ post----and I call it cheating only because you choose a certain lifestyle plan to eat for health…when you go off that you cheat on that plan…but you can also be one who ‘wants 1 day per month’ to eat whatever they want and probably alot of it LOL and that is ok too only because it takes a ton of time for everyone to find a pattern that suits them. Then you are on a ‘I eat junk 1 time per month plan’ ya made for yourself LOL

The big but is coming. We all know what it is. I am zero carb and I don’t eat off plan ever cause in all truth if I was to have a day now with eat whatever junk I want, I would end up in the hospital probably now being so sick. Well, maybe not that dramatic but it would take me down horrible. It would be now like taking poison 1 time per month.

If you are one who feels they can do it, then try it. and the big but again, you could easily turn that 1 day into eating off plan a long time, like you said. many of us can’t jump back and forth easily. Once we get that sugar intake we want more and more and then have to fight again to fight off that addiction that screams keep eating sugar.

Only way you know how it goes down for you is try it and see. Then you know where you fall in this world of food. One who can or into at pack of those of us who can’t.

But if keto that eating whatever might not effect you ‘as much’ but if you are a zero carb eater and been doing it for a while, that eat whatever you want day can easily make ya sicker than you think.

be interesting to see what you do.

#7

I don’t know what tolerance you are talking about… And why would be it a week? It’s a couple of days at most but several hours is possible too, it depends, as far as I know. I personally don’t care about ketosis itself, I want to feel RIGHT. And I can have it with or without ketosis but ketosis isn’t enough if I don’t eat well. It’s not all about ketosis and not even all about carbs though the amount is quite important for most of us.

Keto probably helps a lot even if you don’t do it all the time, it’s true for me for sure but I don’t know the inner workings and changes of our body so I can’t help with that. I never noticed magical things, I just feel better with less carbs, my hunger and satiation changed, just the usual.

Eating whatever you want once a month is very individual. Just because you decided this, it may not work. And I can eat whatever I want every day (I basically do exactly this, I did it all my life. if it’s not important, I may keep myself but I never resist real temptations) and NOW (I had worse times) the biggest problem I have is some nudge from my body telling me it’s not exactly ideal or I feel a bit too full. I consider this the best: you eat your ideal woe, enjoy the hell out of it and almost never want anything else . We can train and learn to want the right things :wink:
(It doesn’t mean I do keto for long, I don’t. I am still a low-carber, not a ketoer. But I mostly eat animal products and it feels better than my old keto. For some of us, average carb intake and skipping some items matter a lot. Some of us can afford a carby day without problems. And can get back very easily, coming back is possibly WAY easier than staying on the wrong woe).

So you may try and see how it works and feel. About the inner workings of the human body, hopefully someone can help. But we are still individuals so it can’t say what exactly will happen with you.

(Elizabeth ) #8
#9

So you’re not “zero” carb if you use a ZERO carb sweetener huh? Logic fail in progress.

#10

As far as I know, ZC often (always) means (some kind of) carnivore, not zero carb though I still didn’t figure out the details and they aren’t important for me anyway. I eat plenty of carbs from animal food (from my viewpoint, at least. it’s not that many but significant).

Sweeteners aren’t carnivore. And they often have lots of carbs just not net carbs and some people care about that.

Labels can be misleading sometimes.

(Louis) #11

To the people who cannot see past their blinkers. If a person who stops halfway through a marathon but completes it. Did that person complete that marathon? Just because you choose not to waver from your path doesn’t mean I must stay on mine. You have the right to control you woe and so do I. I expect the question to be answered not to be told how I should live my life.

If you have cheat days you are not zero carb. This is ridiculous. Life is not black and white. Neither is the way I choose to live or eat.

Having one cheat day a month still makes me zero carbs. I’m a sinner and so are you.

(Elizabeth ) #12

Just gonna leave this here. Eat what you like.

#13

More and more people are converting their WOE into religion man! It’s like saying a normal dieter doesn’t eat SAD because one “cheat” day a week they eat high fat! Imagine that crap?

(Bob M) #14

Not to mention there are plenty of “zero carb”/“carnivore” people that drink coffee or tea or use some condiments or use apple cider vinegar or spices or…

The person who never cheats while eating nothing but meat is really, really rare. It’s almost as mythical as a true vegan (the latter known to sneak animal products in). Are there some out there? I’m sure there are. Just not many.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #15

Let’s talk about so-called ‘metabolic flexibility’, which has reared it ugly head here. We had a pretty thorough airing of various opinions here:

Here’s the citation I referenced in the OP of that conversation. It’s a short article and well-worth the read:

It basically defines ‘metabolic flexibility’ as the ability to utilize fatty acids/ketones for energy and transition smoothly from glucose and back when required by various organs/functions. It is not the ability to switch back and forth from carbs to fat/protein foods. I agree with this definition and have yet to see anyone offer any evidence that it’s incorrect. Remember, carbs are nonessesntial and eating them unnecessary for optimum health and nutrition. Only glucose is necessary and gluconeogenesis provides as much as we need.

I would only add that I think anyone with a relatively ‘normal’ metabolism in ketosis most of the time can eat carbs of varying amounts from time to time without detrimental effects. Many folks on this forum make this claim and I don’t accuse them of lying about it. I do, however, question the motives for doing so and using ‘metabolic flexibility’ as an excuse to eat stuff they don’t need to eat simply because they want to do so. I don’t care what anyone else eats or not, nor why they do and don’t. But I do object to misleading newbies about carbs. It’s one thing to say ‘our ancestors’ retained the primate ability to consume and digest some amount of carbs when available. And they probably did so. It’s quite another thing to claim that eating carbs in any than incidental amounts associated with fat/protein foods serves any useful purpose now. It does not, unless you want to gain fat and/or make your biceps look big because they’re stuffed with water locked up by glycogen.

#16

IDK what people consider zerocarb but vegetarianism/veganism… I surely never called myself a vegetarian when I ate meat 5 times a year, only when I ate it 0 times per year (though I wasn’t really a vegetarian due to cheese. I considered worms in fruit okay enough :smiley: but yeah, I ate meat due to that)… 1 month is too short for me to use a label - but of course, everyone consider these things differently.
It doesn’t really matter, I think.
Everyone should decide what to do and there was a question about how our body works differently in some situation…

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #17

Actually, I know a number of strict carnivores, and all but one eat that way because they get sick if they eat plant matter. The one exception can apparently eat plant foods without ill consequences, but he finds that his metabolism functions more efficiently if he does not. So for these people, eating strict carnivore is not a moral issue, it’s a matter of not being able to cope with the consequences of eating any other way.

I would say that intentionally excluding plant foods from ones diet is what makes one a carnivore, even in spite of the occasional lapse. But intentionally including plant foods in a diet ipso facto causes that diet to cease being a carnivore diet.

(Elizabeth ) #18

I gave up coffee my first 5 months of carnivore just because I couldn’t drink it without sweeteners, and I have added back one cup a day but other than that I haven’t so much as had a taste of chocolate or a single blueberry in two and a half years. I see no point in eating the foods that made me unhealthy for so many years :slight_smile:

#19

ZC people drop all fake sweeteners.

The rest I say is not addressed to you tho :), just a general statement about zc mostly…But, you know guys…we ZC people are just that. That is what the plan is…it ain’t an lc plan where one can jump around a bit…you know ‘change that carb limit’ as they desire a bit when they can or want to and make that into a plan for themselves.

zc is drop all carbs all the time, every time from our lives. So playing this ‘planned cheat’ day on zc is just ironic to the max.

and it is true, zc people are here for many reasons that are personal and how food effects us. It isn’t playing in the low carb plan area at all for us. So many people jump to Carnivore/ZC cause of how well they see us doing and how healthy we are getting and yet they never take the time or research to even understand why many of us are doing this way of life. So…unarmed with bad info as usual for most as they seem to wanna think they understand zc’ers when they just don’t mostly.

There is a huge difference for a beginner becoming zc cause they need this plan and they have a cheat day out of transitioning and just some failure on that day to not eat carbs. Everyone gets that totally cause alot of us who transition into being zc had to walk thru this…but once zc you ain’t ‘planning cheat carb’ days. It is not us if you can be zc and stick to it and the plan is working for you. If you are into zc and want planned carb days, you best go into a low carb plan now and forget zc…hey have some carnivore days, some lc days in your week but once you start eating carbs again while on a zc plan…you ain’t gonna make it anymore. You will ramp up to eating more and again, the reason we are zc is why we are doing this plan and zc people who need this and desire this plan all in for life aren’t gonna go down this ‘plan a cheat’ path. Ain’t happening for hardcore people who require the plan. You don’t require it then go play in the lc world, there ain’t a darn thing wrong with doing that.

(Kirk Wolak) #20

Louis,
First, stick with the Identity that is working for you. If you are Zero-Carb, that is another way of basically saying Meat only, no artificial crap, etc. (That’s why ZC sweeteners are frowned up. And they should be for SOME Groups, because they are a huge negative for SOME).

Second, I don’t understand the WHY? You have muscle memory for burning carbs. This “rings” to me of an addict making “choices”… FWIW, I tried a cheat day. It destroyed my Ketones/glucose control for about 3-5 days. YEP! One Day! Also, I did ONE MEAL, and I wasn’t even that bad. It took 2-3 days of HARD work, hunger pangs, and side-effects to get my glucose/ketones back. And my ketones were REALLY low for a week, as if my body was TAUNTING me to just give in to the Carb Cravings. YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary).

Burning Sugar is very easy. Your body does it BY DEFAULT. No need to retrain it until you are at the PEAK of health, and you have some SOLID reasons to do it. Certainly not to just eat “carbage”.

Are you addicted to carbs? If an alcoholic came to you and said “Wow, it’s great to be clean!”
“But I want to spend 1 week a month drunk… Is that Okay?” LMAO, NO, it’s not.

I am 90% or more Carnivore. I don’t call myself Zero carb. I use MCT Oil, Ketones and Stevia, some sucralose. Words have meaning, and the GROUP defines them. Zero Carb has, always/kinda always, been used for those who ESCHEW everything non-meat/animal.

Some carnivores do dairy/cheese/eggs, some will do honey. Uggh it gets complicated.
But so is being an Ovo Lacto Vegetarian! We have a lot of information to convey quickly.

Anyways, I would do ONE cheat day, and measure your morning ketones/glucose EVERY day for 2 weeks before, and 2 weeks after. Make no other change. Then do ONE Meal. Again while measuring before and after. YOUR Body changes a LONG TIME after your blood tells the story.

My niece is a doctor who BELIEVES that ONE cheat day/wk confuses the body, and that is GOOD Stress… When I showed her my bloodwork after trying that, she was SHOCKED. Thought I might be lying. Then agreed. “For some people”. She said with my results, she would say ONE MEAL a month with carbs would probably be the most she would do.

FWIW, I find TESTING all of these things out VERY informative. But you have to test with real tools, and more than just the scale. You also should keep a food log. Because I Find DAIRY to be INSIDIOUS. Once it gets into my diet, it is PAINFULLY hard to remove. There is an addiction element in there… My food log tells me this. The danger to me of NOT EATING until full… Is that 2hrs later, I find an excuse to have some heavy whipping cream or cheese, etc. I share my house with a family that enjoys these foods, so I can’t have them all gone from my environment. But I have to do better to enjoy them.

Finally, I have found that if I do some EXCELLENT fasting, I can recover faster. So, I can TOLERATE a chaffle sandwich if I fasted for 2 days before, it’s my only meal, and I fast for 48hrs afterwards. That’s great news. It’s “expensive”, but it beats saying “I can’t have it”, or my body wont tolerate it!

Good Luck!