Diving in soon

(Michael Price) #1

Hey! I’m new here, so allow me to introduce myself. I’m Michael, and I’m going to switch to a keto lifestyle pretty much ASAP with my wife. We’ve been studying it for a while, thanks to a video by Lockstin on YouTube (he’s type 1 diabetic and recently shared how he lost a ton of weight and how keto has helped his diabetes, and how it can help people who don’t have it too).

So I’m here to join the discussion and hopefully get some questions answered. I’m the kind of person who really likes the nitty-gritty of why and how all this stuff works, and I’m building a meal plan for our first couple of weeks on keto so I won’t have to really worry about it when the time comes to make the switch.

So here’s a question: any recommendations on how much of each micronutrient we need? I’ve found some data on a keto article that seems a little high, like it recommended 4500mg potassium daily and 3000-5000mg sodium. Is that right? I’m trying to build our meal plan so that we have a balance of the micro/macros that we need each day, rather than just “No carbs, eat all the fats and meats” because that’s just too much freedom for me, I’ll end up eating nothing but bacon and pepperoni if I don’t plan it all out with avocado and whatnot.

And a tangentially related question: what’s a good way to get Omega-3 fatty acids without seafood or carbs? My wife hates fish, so while I personally would love eating tons of salmon, since I’m meal planning for both of us I need to figure out where to get her those nutrients. I’ve heard supplements aren’t as good as getting nutrients from actual food, but are they really a lot worse, or just not quite as good?

Thanks in advance for your help, and I’m looking forward to getting more involved here once we’ve actually started!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #2

If you eat a well-formulated ketogenic diet, you don’t really need to be concerned with micro-nutrients, except for sodium. The body retains sodium when we eat a lot of carbohydrate, so going low-carb/keto lets the kidneys return to their normal, higher rate of excreting it. This means that we need to work a bit at keeping our salt intake up.

Furthermore, the daily recommendations for salt intake are too low; ludicrously and dangerously so, in the U.S. Several recent studies, such as the PURE study out of McMaster University, indicate that people are their healthiest when they get 5 grams of sodium a day. This translates to 2-1/2 teaspoons (U.S.) of table salt a day (but includes the salt already present in food). The advantage to keeping sodium intake up is that it helps the body regulate potassium, magnesium, and calcium. In most cases, it is not necessary to take supplements for those minerals.

Ketone bodies also affect the body’s need for other micro-nutrients, particularly anti-oxidants. They restore the body’s natural defenses against oxidative stress, which are disabled by a high-carbohydrate diet. The researchers who studied Vilhjalmur Stefansson and Karsten Andersen in the late 1920’s were amazed that they did not develop scurvy on their all-meat diet, but it turns out that the key is in how ketone bodies turn the body’s anti-oxidant mechanisms back on. (This is how the Inuit and the Maasai, to give a couple of examples, managed to stay healthy on their traditional diets, despite eating almost no carbohydrate.)

Certain keto-friendly vegetables are good sources of ω-3 fatty acids, and you should be able to get enough (and in the right proportion with ω-6, too) from using avocado, coconut, or olive oil in your salad dressing (you can also cook with the first two, but avoid heating your olive oil). I have to admit that the animal fats I love to cook with are rich in saturated and monounsaturated fats, but low on polyunsaturated fats. The vegetable (actually seed) oils on the market are far too rich in polyunsaturates to be at all healthy, so it is a good idea to avoid them at all costs.

(Michael Price) #3

Thanks for the in-depth reply! That’s where I’m at right now, trying to get a well-formulated keto diet. It seems like there are a trillion keto recipes and books available, and I’m having a lot of fun checking out Yummly for recipe ideas, but I just want to make sure it’s a well-formulated diet rather than just a bunch of stuff that sounds tasty. For example my meal plan for day 1 is breakfast keto bacon egg bites, lunch is crock-pot keto jambalaya, and dinner is spinach-based crust pesto sauce keto pizza with olives and pepperoni. All those added together fit the daily macros, but I’m wondering if I need to add a leafy green salad in there somewhere or some avocado or something. It’s just a bit confusing, but it’s the kind of confusing I enjoy figuring out since I like math and puzzles.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #4

You don’t need to count macros, particularly, unless you enjoy that sort of thing. The “lazy” keto way is to make sure to keep carbohydrate under 20 g/day, and then to eat protein and fat to satiety. We apparently have an instinct for eating enough protein, and fat, which causes the least stimulation of insulin secretion (practically none), is not only a great source of low-insulin calories, but is also very tasty and satisfying.

When their insulin is kept low, most people find it easy to rely on their body’s satiety signaling as an indication of how much to eat. These days, I am finding that not only am I not hungry most of the time, I actually don’t want food. And my stomach is nowhere near full! If you knew me, you’d know just how weird that truly is! :bacon:

(Carl Keller) #5

Welcome to you and your wife to keto world. :slight_smile:

According to the US RDA, that’s correct. Europe says 3500 mg and Australia/NZ say 2800 for women and 3800 for men. I honestly think 90% of americans don’t come close to the RDA and if you can consistently hit 50%+ you are way better off than you were pre-keto. The keto foods that are highest in potassium:
Cauliflower
Mushrooms
Beef
Salmon
Zucchini
Avacados
Spinach

I am probably eating the most nutritious foods I have ever eaten, consistently, since starting keto. I try to include at least a cup of either broccoli, brussels sprouts, cauliflower, spinach or mushrooms each day. I probably have a good salad 2-3 days a week and the rest is meat, eggs and fish.

If you don’t like fish a more subtle way to get Omega-3s is from caesar dressing or walnuts. Most caesars have some anchovies in the mix. 1 tbs of caesar has about .55g of omega 3. Walnuts have about .6g of omega 3 per tbs. Other good sources include brussels sprouts @ .4g per cup and broccoli @ .2g per cup.

I’m not a fan of supplements. I think 95% of the stuff on the market is garbage and the choices are overwhelming. I believe the best way to get what your body needs is through what you eat. I’m definitely not an expert on this subject and this is just my personal opinion.

And btw, cronometer.com comes highly recommended by lots of folks in the forum. It makes meal planning a lot easier and it shows exactly what each food is offering in the nutrient department.

(Michael Price) #6

Well, I made my first keto meal last night. We’re not quite ready to jump in all the way yet but I wanted to get a taste of what it’s like cooking on keto, and it turned out surprisingly well. I bought a whole rotisserie chicken from Earth Fare, an avocado, and some leafy greens (baby kale and spinach, mostly). Used coconut oil to sauté the greens in tumeric, salt and pepper, sliced the avocado into a dozen “fries” for lack of a better word, and sautéed the avocado in the same spices. Then all I had to do was heat up the chicken and carve it. The whole meal came together really nicely and I wasn’t even following a recipe, so now I’m thinking this isn’t going to be too hard. I never even liked avocado before but the way I cooked it tasted really good and knowing it’s healthy made it even better.

We’re still waiting until after Thanksgiving to dive in so we won’t have to worry about all the family making non-keto foods and giving us keto flu, but I’d say our first trial of a keto meal was a rousing success!

(Michael Price) #7

That’s really cool! I think I’ll still count it all at first, just to make sure I’m getting what I need to try to stave off keto flu, but it’s good to know that it’ll get easier once I’ve been on it for a while. Thanks!

I’d never thought of it like that, thanks! An improvement is still better, even if it’s not perfect. That’s a great way to look at it! Also thanks regarding the Omega-3 stuff, my wife really doesn’t like Caesar dressing either just because I told her it had anchovies in it :sweat: But those other options sound great!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #8

Keto “flu” is merely lack of sodium, nothing more, nothing less. Keep your salt intake up, and drink to thirst; you’ll be fine. It worked for me, anyway. (The reason is that the kidneys excrete sodium more slowly when we eat carbohydrate, and when we eat very little carb, they go back to their normal, higher rate.) Aim for 12.5 g of table salt a day (2-1/2 American teaspoons), for optimal health.

The most important thing to count is carbohydrate, so as to keep it under 20 g/day. That will get you into ketosis quickly, so you can make a start on becoming fat-adapted. Good luck!

(Terence Dean) #9

@PaulL’s absolutely right, lazy keto is probably the best way for people new to Keto. Read up and watch video’s as many as you can to get a better understanding of how it all works. For me learning the science of what makes Ketogenics so effective, and working out what carbs do to our bodies, its been a real eye opener for me. KCKO!

(Frank) #10

I was the same way. Didn’t hate them but didn’t really consider them a major part of my diet. I eat them as often as I can now. Plenty of salt added of course.

(Michael Price) #11

Well, with the holidays and everyone in town, plus my wife and I were moving, we ended up just waiting to start keto until after New Years. So as of yesterday, we’re doing it!

We made a batch of sausage stuffed keto biscuits that are easy to reheat for breakfast, and I’m pretty sure they’re my new favorite breakfast food.

Lunch yesterday for both of us was a Quest bar, because they have low net carbs and we were both really busy yesterday. I also had a snack of some almonds.

For dinner I made crock pot buffalo chicken, with keto bread to make open-face sandwiches, avocado fries, and a salad of spinach and baby kale with homemade dressing using olive oil, minced garlic, lite salt, and an Italian spice blend.

Dessert was keto peanut butter and cream cheese fat bombs made with Stevia.

At the end of the day my net carbs were 21g, and I somehow was way under my calorie goal. My goal is around 2000 since I’m a pretty big guy, but all that food was about 1700.

I know, we should be having better than a protein bar for lunch, but I think we did pretty well for our first day!

(Scott) #12

Foods don’t have to be complicated and I don’t buy anything with the word keto in it. Just eat real foods like meat fish eggs cheese and produce. Get some healthy fats from meats, butter heavy whipping cream and healthy oils. Lose the pasta, root veggies, potatoes and fruit. Obviously no sugars either. You will be in ketosis in no time.

(Michael Price) #13

Thanks! Yeah I should have specified we haven’t bought anything with keto in the name either, I’ve just found some good recipes for keto bread using almond flour, stuff like that. The Quest bars are the only thing pre-made store bought that we’ve had simply because they came highly recommended by someone we know on keto. It’s kinda tough since I’m currently going back to college so I’m at home, while my wife is at work, so I can easily find stuff around the house but she has to either bring something with her or try to find keto-safe foods in the cafeteria, and when we hadn’t made anything the night before it’s easier to just pick up a bar that only has 4 net carbs.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #14

Hey, don’t stress; Scott wasn’t criticizing, just giving you the best recommendation we know. Do what you can, and don’t worry about what you can’t. The keto police aren’t going to be busting down your door, promise! (Unless you have a really good recipe for sous vide pork chops or something, lol!)

(Scott) #15

Food on the go can be a challenge. If she has a refrigerator at work (I do) some things that work for me are Avocados with the meat removed and mixed with Tuna fish and then place back in the halfs the meat came out of. Hard boiled eggs, sliced cheese, cold steak cubes. Without refrigeration almonds or macadamia nuts are a go to snack for me. As she becomes fat adapted I can also see the possibility of eliminating the meal at work as an option to get around a difficult meal time too.