Discussion of dietary cholesterol and cardiovascular disease

(Chuck) #30

It is still a chemical compound that is foreign to our bodies, and while you may not now be noticing any reaction to the chemicals it could very well lead to diseases in your future. We never know for sure. And the research and analysis are done in so short of a timeframe that we can’t really predict what could happen. I am doing my best to detox my body from what laboratory chemicals that I can.
It may be too little too late but at least I am working to do what I can to eat only real food and stay away from chemical products .

#31

Good point.

I think what I’ll do is just stop ordering the repeat (28 days) prescription for the statins, and when the GP (General Practitioner Dr., primary care…not sure what they are called in US?) or practice nurse notices I’ll just ask for bloods to be taken and monitored every 6 months for a year.
Say, three blood tests (start, 6 month, year), and then check it annually after that.

Yep, that’s my plan, executive decision taken :wink:

Thanks.

(Chuck) #32

I use my veteran’s benefits, and go to the Local VA clinic, I am a disabled veteran with a hearing loss disability. I get my hearing aids, and all of my medications as a benefit but that doesn’t mean that I am not proactive at not wanting to not need the prescriptions drugs. I also have macular degeneration and have to take vitamin supplements to slow the progression of my macular degeneration. My bigs worry is losing my hearing and eyesight.

#33

Hope you’re OK with avoiding that.

And thanks for your service.

(Jenna Ericson) #34

I’m not sure I’d go off the Ramipril or at least taper off slowly. As an ACE inhibitor it decreases the formation of angiotensin II, a [vasoconstrictor]. This causes an up regulation of ACE2 receptors, which are the binding sites for signaling changes in blood pressure. If you were to stop taking it you may make too much angiotensin II, and because you now have more receptors, your blood pressure could go too high. I would think the number of receptors would down-regulate over time if you tapered off slowly. Usually any drug that decrease the production of something in the body would up-regulate receptors for it as the natural way of counteracting what nature intended.

The reason people taking ACE inhibitors were said to have a higher risk from COVID is because the virus binds to those ACE2 receptors, and someone on an ACE inhibitor has more of them.

#35

Quite. Still very essential.

I take it you meant ‘myelin sheaths’, is what I know them as, as in essential for neurones electrical signalling etc. etc. I have personal experience of when these sheaths fail:

My father, after the gullit cancer operation and radotherapy remission, poor soul also suffered from a mystery illness known as Guillain Barre syndrome. His immune system basically attacked his motor neurones first and all nerves later, yet with his mind remaining ‘awake.’

Numbness, speech slurring, then respiratory problems…straight to intensive care after a while.
Gradually got worse, was communicating with scribbled writing for a while, then he had to have a tracheostomy, before induced coma. He must have been scared sh*tless and helpless.

He got through it, but the drugs he was under…it must have been morphine based; when he started getting motor function back (still intubated) he was scribbling notes that aliens were experimenting on him and get him out of there- they wouldn’t let him sleep.

Of course, that’s what ICU staff do when they’re getting a patient back, checking vitals and encouraging lucidity of what is going on…but my dad was tripping his bollox off.

So, I’ll keep my cholesterol and myelin sheaths, thank you sir!

Any lipid experts here?
#36

You sound like a pharmacologist/pharmacist…or a doc that reads up on drug advances!
I mean that in a good way.

No, that’s not what I meant sorry, I meant that I will keep taking the Ramipril, because I agree probably it’s the only thing they’ve prescribed me worth taking…but I will phase out the statins and check my bloods for any adverse cholesterol/lipid levels.

Cheers!

(KM) #37

I agree, in a broader sense. We are scavengers by nature, our bodies put to use whatever they can. And sometimes that’s not something we should be using. Building a body using the wrong things is like building a house using jelly beans. It looks great … til it rains.

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #38

Brilliant observation. That’s exactly what we are now I think of it!
And explains our close association with dogs.
Not Many creatures with such a broad range of possible food sources.

(B Creighton) #39

Basically all drugs have side effects. One of the main things that happens with statins is that they suppress CoQ10 levels since the body makes CoQ10 along the same chemical pathway statins work on to suppress cholesterol, which is going to affect everything that CoQ10 is used for. So, if you are going to take a statin you need to supplement with CoQ10 or you will have symtoms of deficiency.

Why would we want to suppress something our bodies naturally makes ie cholesterol? Our bodies are making it, because we need it. I think the statins do have an effect on CVD somewhat, but that I believe is only because there is less LDL to oxidize, so the overall effect on CVD improves. I would rather stop the oxidation of my cholesterol, than suppress a nutrient which my body needs and is going to suppress my testosterone levels etc.

Our medicine started to treat acute infections, diseases, injuries etc, and has grown quite good at it. It has saved many lives. But, with the advent of processed foods, chronic metabolic diseases have skyrocketed, and the pharmaceutical companies haven’t minded creating drugs to “manage” these diseases on a chronic basis. These drugs certainly aren’t cures, and they make the companies lots of money on a “chronic” basis.

I don’t know that it is a “scam.” I think the intentions were at least originally to help people, but they certainly don’t seem interested in teaching the public the true cause of their chronic diseases, and how to reverse them. That is kind of the fault of the public at large for falling into the trap of wanting the dopamine hit processed foods provide I think. Anyway, we have come to expect far too much from these drugs, when it seems the only real cure is to change our diet back to whole, fresh foods. The more man messes with foods, it seems the more problems we have created. Rather then to take a drug like statins on a chronic basis, I am changing the way I buy, store and cook foods, and keeping track of my oxLDL levels. I avoid not only processed carbs, but processed fats, and learning how to avoid foods that are oxidized or become easily oxidized. I want the essential polyunsaturated fats from salmon, but these fats are easily oxidized, and so I now buy filets that are essentially vacuum packed, and cook them on low heat. Hopefully, new habits like these will keep me off the operating table. The only way the body has to get these fats where they are needed is by transporting them in LDL particles. So, if they are oxidized, I believe they can damage the ApoB protein shell of the LDL. So, I am trying to address that rather than address CVD later through the chronic use of some drug. I don’t know that drugs will ever be able to reverse damage we do to ourselves on a chronic basis. As much as the drug companies don’t mind the profits, I don’t feel it is all their fault. They are just reacting to needs our food system has created.

(Chuck) #40

I moved a way from cities and towns so I can grow as much as possible and I made friends with as many local farmers as possible so I can get fresh produce, meat, milk and eggs. I grew up on a farm and have always believed in eating off the land as much as possible. Even when I lived in the city so I could work and get to work without having to drive for hours each way, I sought out farmers markets and did my best to only buy from the small farmers. It surely isn’t the cheapest way to eat unless you factor in being as healthy as possible.

(Geezy) #41

All of the scientific talk just make my eyes cross and my head hurt. :dizzy_face:‍:dizzy:

In my research though I have come to the conclusion that statins are basically worthless, so I quit taking them.
High markers in cholesterol are not a bad thing except in triglycerides. High LDL is not harmful.
Diabetes and glycation is the most harmful thing there is to the heart. (Besides a knife)
Seed oils should be banned from the earth and only animal fats should be used.

This is how I choose to live my life now.

#42

Thanks buddy!

We need to keep reminding ourselves of these facts.

Until it is known far more across the spectrum of society.

(B Creighton) #43

Basically, all living things have 3 fats: saturated fats, monounsaturated fats, and polyunsaturated fats. Plants tend to make more polunsaturated fats. They are not really unhealthy in their natural form, and nature packs them with vitamin E to keep them unoxidized. But, when man refines them, the vitamin E is stripped away, and they are exposed to the air and highly heated, thus they become oxidized. Then to make them palatable, they deodorize them, etc. Otherwise no one would buy them. I believe virgin olive oil and coconut oil are quite healthy, and coconut oil is mostly saturated fat. It is a “seed oil.” It is just not really “processed,” but is simply squeezed out. (The studies showing harm from coconut oil always seemed to use refined cocnut oil). About 15% of coconut oil is MCTs as well. It is one of the best sources of MCTs, and is where all the store bought MCTs come from. Do NOT ban my virgin coconut oil, or I will hunt you down… :wink:

(B Creighton) #44

It could very well be the cheapest way to live if it keeps you off the 100s of dollars of drugs most people take every month. I would love to have more accessible foods like you. We have deer starting to appear, and if I grew a garden, I don’t think I would harvest much of it. My grandmother grew a garden every year in N.C. in her retirement, and lived to be 96. Besides her Crisco Biscuits, she ate a fairly healthy diet. She far outlived most of the males in her family who mostly died in their 50s of heart attacks, and her mind was still quite sharp.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #45

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(Robin) #46

Do me a favor and just tell me… is red good or bad? You can’t expect me to retain this sort of information and then look at a chart and feel good about what I’m doing or face the fact that I am slowly killing myself with coconut oil in my dang coffee.

Do they make charts with happy faces and sad faces? That’s more my speed.
:blush::slightly_frowning_face:

#47

Rotate your fats!

Coconut oil, EVOO, lard and tallow.
You’ll be grand.

#48

That is scandalous. To the n’th degree.

I won’t be taking statins anymore. Decision made.

:+1:

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #49

The chart is very interesting to me. How does Palm Oil and Beef fat, with very different origins, have near identical make up?
And I’m intrigued by ‘Other Fats’ (purple) what might they be?