Differing Opinions in FB Groups

(Todd Batitis) #1

As I often check Facebook groups for things like Keto and IF, it amazes me the groups that are completely flipped on what it is about. Completely against what the science says about the hormone process, Fung is is a liar, “we aren’t butter chuggers”, etc. It is just mind blowing to me. Ketogenic Intermittent Fasting and they are looking for fat free products and it is all about the protein. Nothing you can say that doesn’t match their paradigm can be correct and you are an idiot if you don’t “take a biochemistry class” to debunk what you are talking about if it doesn’t agree with them. Part of the reason I even stay is simply to watch the other side so to speak.

And then there are the other ones who want to sell you a program for $40 but don’t name the group for what it is, but rather as a tease to get newbies thinking they are getting recipes for this new lifestyle they are trying and want to argue with you when you are posting legit info about keto and how it works.

It is just sad to me that so many will be sucked into info that can completely keep them from optimizing what they are doing and then will sit back and you will hear the “I tried keto and it doesn’t work.” kind of things… all the while you are sitting there saying, “I don’t know, I have been doing it this way for nearly a year and am down 150+ pounds.”

It can be frustrating sometimes to see the completely unhelpful information spouted out there or programs that tell people what to eat (make this meal, make this meal, make this meal) without teaching them the why and how to figure it out themselves which leaves them… in the end… as clueless as they were in the beginning.

/rant off :slight_smile:

#2

Are the FB groups pro-protein now? When I was last there months ago, protein was the devil’s macro, and that one extra gram of protein from your steak was going to turn into a chocolate cake instantly because our bodies are too stupid to know the difference.

(Alec) #3

Todd
Excellent rant. Love it. You just described many of the reasons why I give FB a very wide berth.

The internet in general has a problem: anyone can set themselves up to look like an expert. And people read what they say, think it sounds right, know no better, and end up doing and thinking things that are just plain wrong. But, hey-ho, that’s exactly what 99% of people (including me) have been doing for the last 60 years post the Keys revolution.

This is why wide reading and broad research to view multiple opinions and data is very important. Your crap detection unit has to be fully on when reading stuff in general on the interweb and especially in reddit and FB.

I kinda hope that our education system is starting to teach people about crap detection, but I fear that it isn’t (yet). In our new world where the volume of information is exploding every day and everywhere, crap detection is a primary skill. We need skills to spot quality and value. This is not easy.

(Todd Batitis) #4

The one called Ketogenic Intermittent Fasting (which I joined even after seeing they were a bit off) seems (from posts, even from admins) to completely disbelieve the insulin model and insists that for weight loss and body recomposition you need to be eating around 40% protein and 60% fat which. At certain points I can see that being relatively accurate. I mean, I recently saw Dr. Ted Naimen for the first time to get his take on my continually increasing cholesterol numbers (posted in another thread). Since I am down from 356 in March 2018 to 200 pounds today and near goal, he feels I should essentially flip my protein and fat macros to protect against muscle loss and I can understand that. He assures me I will still be in ketosis and get the benefits of it but I am at a different stage…13 pounds from goal weight of 200 pounds lost since peak weight of 387. Some of these groups though make it sound like the what I did to get here doesn’t work or will only work for a very SHORT period and then there will be the dreaded stall. LOL

An example:

" 75% fat/20% protein/5% carbs is a NOT a ketogenic diet for someone looking to lose weight (fat). So while “high fat” (relative term) is ok for certain people, it serves no place in fat loss/ketogenic diet. "High fat’ doesn’t make a better ketogenic diet…ONLY carb restriction matters to enter ketosis and following a ketogenic diet.

Now can someone lose fat on the above ratios? Absolutely! Anybody coming from the standard American crap diet and switching over to a ketogenic diet regardless of the ketogenic % ratio absolutely we’ll lose LOTS of water as well as some fat but with the above high ratios of fat you can only do that so long and then you will no longer be able to lose fat and you will stall.

In fact if you do any diet coming from the standard American diet you will lose weight so keep that in mind that’s why so many people who eat a lot of fat are losing weight because it’s the first time they’re actually doing a diet, tons of water loss (5-15lbs the 1st week or 2). But then they stall…"

LOL, those are exactly my macros and the only time I have stalled… in the 9 months or so I have been doing keto… were when I went off and dorfed at the Asian buffet or some other thing and then it set me back for about a week. Currently I am still losing roughly a pound a week, even after losing over 150 pounds steadily. In fact, I finally set my goal at 187 pounds because getting to 200 has been easy. I haven’t even been needing to try and make a push to get the last “XX” pounds off. And that is even with opening up the weekends to 16:8 IF more often than simply doing 20:4 all the time.

(Alec) #5

So what do they believe is the weight loss mechanism?

(Jay Patten) #6

I don’t tell people that I’m keto. I tell them that I am “zero sugar.”

Idiots on Facebooks and Instagram and snapchat (and the internet in general) have bastardized keto beyond recognition. It’s to the point where most people really have no clue what it actually is… hormone healthcare.

(Justin Jordan) #7

Ketogains for sure is. Which is reasonably…er…reasonable, given their goals and beliefs.

#8

Well Ketogains is Ride or Die for CICO, so I’m not surprised there.

(Alec) #9

I laugh when people say they believe in CICO. It’s like saying I believe in money.

#10

Keto gains have their own thing and they do just that, most of reddit is “carbs under 20, your protein macro is the minimum (you can go over) and use fat as a lever…”
I removed myself from my entire list of keto, local keto and instant pot groups :wink:
My local one got too confusing (carrots are no-no, but “lchf, keto, 100% raspberry ice cream” (ingredients: raspberries are in 10th place, stevia 1%, the rest are additives and maltitol) is the best thing on the planet) and our mentality bothers me. The rest are pushing their products, instant pot groups are 200 daily posts of “how to make yogurt,” etc. People don’t want to read, they dont want to think critically…
I recently left a very big keto group, I don’t know if we’re allowed to write who we are criticizing - i bought a cookbook in January, realized there’s a new e-book out now with 70 more recipes that arent in the original book…thanks, how many more books do I have to buy?!? I felt tricked, like the book I bought isn’t good enough… No more, done, that was the final straw. I know they have to make a living, but come on…People follow their way, I get it, but the groups became cult-like.
I prefer this community - we are all doing our own thing, we can learn a lot from each other and it’s a civil and safe place, open for debates…it might be our mentality, as well…

(Allie) #11

This is why I don’t bother with Facebook keto groups.

#12

Hah, yep. That’s what led me to escape from one high-profile keto FB group last year - you got stomped all over if you dared suggest that one might possibly be able to survive on a diet containing less than 80% fat, as apparently THAT’S NOT KETO!!!

(Allie) #13

There was one group I was on briefly where you weren’t allowed to even comment on what someone was maybe doing wrong or make suggestions on how they could try doing something differently to improve their results. That was insane as even when people asked for help and you could blatantly see how just a little change could help them massively, you’d get jumped on if you suggested they did something differently. It was like they were desperate for help and asking for help, but you weren’t allowed to help them. I’d get around it by saying “that wouldn’t work for me” or similar, but it didn’t take long for me to get fed up and leave - it was so anti-criticism that it had turned into a culture of reassuring everyone they were doing just fine rather than being honest and actually helping them make things better for themselves.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #14

I just dropped out of most of the FB groups that are keto related including the IDM one and Dave Feldman’s one. I’m in two others and will decide later. I have been intending to drop them anyway.

Thanks for reminding me why I hate FB groups.

#15

Why did you leave IDM and Feldman’s? I’d love to hear your thinking, so I don’t feel like I’m too grumpy :wink:

(Jeff) #16

I recently got kicked off one group for asking questions and having an opinion. It seems some moderators and admins don’t like being challenged so find it easier to just ban & block rather than explain things.

#17

There’s a reason we have a :nofb: emoji here. I’m one of those people who tried to talk sense into some of the FB crowd before the forums were created. I’m sure the popularity of the keto “fad” hasn’t improved the situation any. Add to that, some people view the internet through a FB lens so to speak. They won’t venture out of their walled garden.

I do feel bad sometimes that I’m not still fighting the good fight against misguided FB wisdom.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #18

I left because of the repeatiness of the new people posting where do I start. Things like that. I was not learning anything.

I still try to listen to the IDM staff and to Dave Feldman when every possible.

I also dropped out of metabolic monday. I don’t need to post about fasting in more than one place. I did stay joined to the ketogenic girl open group because Vanessa posts pictures of real keto food that mostly is simple and looks delicious. So this forum’s and Vanessa’s for now.

(Scott) #19

I decided I had enough of Facebook deciding what I should see and now refuse to even open the app.

(less is more, more or less) #20

Frustrating to me, there is one legit Facebook group on low-carb, run by admins strongly aligned with, and visited by, Dr Westman. His admins are well-versed on his page 4 centered approach and the admins are careful to take down or gently correct bad advice. It is a closed group but is highly popular, with 16.5 k members. I find it frustrating because while the Dr and admins do a great job, it is on Facebook. This significantly lowers the level and quality of discussion. It also is the local low-carb, requiring occasional visits too stay in tune with Mi immediate area.