Devil's Advocate: Keto is a Fad

(Brian) #62

I did find a study one time that compared various religious groups to find out who lives the longest. Adventists weren’t at the top. Interestingly, it was the Jews (don’t remember what flavor) that were at the top of the list that I saw. They’re not vegetarian but are particular about the animal products that they consume.

Adventists do like to tout their “health message”. And compared to the average SAD type, they do live longer. But so do a lot of other people that aren’t vegan or vegetarian. I’ve long thought that if being vegan or vegetarian was the path to the longest life, that vegans and vegetarians would be the largest group among centenarians. They are not. Kinda takes the wind out of the sails when the end result isn’t there quite like expected.

When I say these things, I am being hard on Adventists. I’ll admit to being one. But I also do NOT follow along in lockstep with things I don’t agree with and the vegan/vegetarian ideal is one of them. They haven’t kicked me out yet. I think they have some stuff right, i.e., clean air, sunshine, clean water, not overeating, not smoking, not drinking, stress management,… won’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. (Won’t get too crazy with non-diet stuff here but there is more. Like other things, I do the best I can with what situations I am presented and respond the best I can according to my personal beliefs.)

#63

Is this perhaps what you are thinking of? Askenazie Jews (European descent)

http://nymag.com/news/features/ashkenazi-jews-2011-11/index1.html

I read this article a few years ago. It is interesting. Now some of the genetic markers mentioned are more familiar.

their habits were, if anything, worse. They smoked as much or more than others and were no better about diet or exercise. Tommy Kahn described his father’s lifelong eating habits as “lamb chops one night, steak the next.” Exercise was sporadic and mild. “Healthy living can get you past 80,” says Barzilai, “but not to 100.”

While this article is not about them I am wondering if some of the Holocaust survivors lived longer because they were starved. A simple google search confirmed this although they do not attribute it to starvation

The funny part is that Jewish people are often the poster children for heart disease, T2 and cancer. It is so interesting that there is this subset that has escaped it

(Brian) #64

I don’t think that was what I saw, Saphire, but it’s interesting.

What I remember was much more generic, lots of data charts and numbers, and mention of quite a few religious denominations. Wish I knew where that was, I’d post it.

(karen) #65

Sticking with my theory: the less likely the body would encounter a substance in the wild, the more suspect it becomes as a cause of disease. It makes sense to me that processed meats might contain things we shouldn’t eat - IMO bacon isn’t the best choice and when I eat it (with tremendous enjoyment), I do it with an acknowledgment that it’s on my “naughty” list. It makes sense to me that the appropriateness of animal milk would depend on how long it had been part of diet - it’s natural but not to everyone. And it definitely makes sense to me that the further a natural thing - like milk or a tomato - strays from its original chemical composition / wild genetics, the more suspect it becomes.

I know, this is entirely anecdotal / n=1 / personal bias. And I really don’t care. I do agree, if there is pressing evidence against my bias that doesn’t profit the group promoting it, I’ll reconsider, I’m not married to my beliefs but I’m in no hurry to dump one “toxic” substance in exchange for a “miracle food” without compelling reason.

(Casey Crisler) #66

I can’t speak for others but my meat consumption, actually total food consumption, has decreased dramatically to where I’m only eating one meal a day with no snacking. The rest of the time I don’t eat…IFing. If you really break it down, I’m eating less meat than I was on my formerly SAD. And very little dairy. I used to be a milk-o-holic.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #67

I hear you - I was doing eight to ten glasses a day!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #68

The Cleveland clinic article on red meat and cancer is based on this study:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanonc/article/PIIS1470-2045(15)00444-1/fulltext
Here is the critique of the study by Dr. Georgia Eded:

The other two articles give no study data in support of their assertions. I was asking for clinical studies to look at. If you don’t have any, please just say so.

(Elli S) #69

My “meta-physical” take on this goes: “Do the best you can based on the best knowledge you have access too, always keep an open mind, and pray that you’re doing the right thing.”
I don’t know of any foolproof scheme to live long, be happy, and never suffer any misfortune.

(Brian) #70

I’ve noticed that I don’t eat as much food anymore, too. It’s not that I deprive myself. I often feel like I’d have been well satisfied to eat a little less. Most days, I eat two meals, breakfast and supper, but occasionally, I’ll just eat one or the other. It’s usually not planned as “intermittent fasting”, just go with what I feel like.

Some of the things I eat have tended to cycle a little. For instance, yogurt. Some weeks, we’ll have that for 3 or 4 mornings in our breakfast. Other weeks, it may only be once. It’s according to what we feel like. Butter, when we first started, was a huge thing that we ate lots and lots of. Anymore, we really don’t eat as much of it. Oh, we still like it just fine, and we eat all we want, no restrictions at all. But “all we want” just isn’t as much as it used to be. Kinda similar with cheese, which most of the time, is more like a condiment than a food group. Again, we eat all we want. It’s just that “all we want” isn’t as much as it used to be.

I don’t know if some of this stuff is how our bodies are adjusting to our new way of eating (we’re 1 year into keto) or whether there’s more to it. It’s really not something I give a lot of thought to.

As far as meat, it varies. Sometimes it’s more beef, sometimes less. Sometimes it’s more turkey or chicken, sometimes less. Sometimes it’s more fish, sometimes less. Mostly, it’s a “What are you hungry for tonight?” that will dictate which direction the meals go. We have a variety of any of the above plus a host of vegetables in the fridge and/or freezers at most any given time so it’s not a big deal.

I can’t help it, though, I need maybe 3/4 of a cup of heavy whipping cream a day. My coffee demands it. LOL!! Half n half will do if the HWC isn’t available but I prefer HWC. If it weren’t for the coffee, I would probably be taking in quite a few less calories. But hey, as long as the weight is cooperating and continuing on the slow downward movement, I have no intention of giving up my coffee.

#71

LOL! :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
I don’t do soybean oil, or most soya products since they tend to be highly processed!

#72

I have seen the same thing. When I think what I eat it really is less meat than I used to eat. I always ate cheese and dairy and I probably do eat more. Also way more guacamole and eggs. In fact not having eggs or HWC will be about the only foods I will run out to get first thing when I get up or last thing at night. Also more nuts and berries. I always ate fruit but now I mostly limit it to berries so I probably eat more berries than I used to

(Nathanael Schulte) #73

I eat quite a bit of meat - I lean toward the carnivore side of keto, and I do so because I genuinely feel better and my health markers agree with me. I would submit, via this article, that there is a much deeper “social justice” motivation behind the WHO recommending less meat in the diet. In other words, they’re not as concerned with whether they’re right or not about meat causing health problems as they are about getting people to eat less of it to save the environment. In neither case do I think their agenda has much scientific backing. They’re going to believe what they believe and see what they want to see despite the lack of good evidence to support them.
I’m not saying I’m not capable of the same thing, but I’m at least trying to hold the science to the Gary Taubes level. If it doesn’t meet that standard, then why bother and why keep spending the money trying to prove the point?

(Ben) #74

The WHO recommendation doesn’t appear to be based on sound science:

Reasons: Self-reported dietary and health data (unreliable). Health endpoint (death) is too common and multifactorial for epidemiologic study. Weak correlations (RRs < 2.0). Effect could easily be explained by socio-economic status — i.e., processed meat-eaters tend to be poorer.

From

#75

Really good link, answers the question well

(TJ Borden) #76

Great video. Thanks for posting it @PaulL

(Nathanael Schulte) #77

Yeah, I remembered Dr. Nally covering this topic on the Keto Talk podcast a couple years ago. He’s a great resource and helped me a TON when I started Keto in 2016.

(Alec) #78

What is TL;DR? :thinking:

(Doug) #79

“Too long; didn’t read.”

#80

OMG, your killin me.

(Alec) #81

It’s this little game @ladylyssa and I have going… :rofl::rofl::+1: