What health risks do know have been PROVEN to be caused by high red meat/dairy while maintaining a low carb diet?
Unless the studies have included patients in ketosis, the study doesn’t apply to how we are eating because the chemistries are so different.
After the lack of evidence regarding the hypothesis that fat/saturated fat being linked to higher rates of cardiovascular disease, and the evidence that shows that for the majority of people high dietary sodium intake is not detrimental to their health, I have become highly skeptical regarding the evidence behind the conclusions of conventional wisdom, especially regarding health and dietary guidelines.
Yep. And when you ask for studies and the reply is a vague “countless articles” (in other words - opinions) or “popular concept with doctors” I have to snort.
I share a primary care doctor with my neighbor and she is T2D and not controlling it and will be on injectable insulin soon. She still goes to Dairy Queen and orders sundaes. Our doctor just keeps upping her meds. She could cure herself with keto but she thinks doctors are godlike so I don’t try to talk to her about it.
I don’t need any meds so I have no problem with the same doctor. And with keto I’ll never have to worry about becoming T2D.
To @Janie’s point. These are really educated opinions that aren’t supported by actual science.
One of the main issues with articles like this presenting themselves as science is that the “evidence” is picked from a pool of data based on the hypothesis the author is trying to prove. Yet the data itself doesn’t support any conclusions and can be applied a number of different ways. Just because it agrees with a narrative doesn’t mean it’s “science”. This works both ways. There’s plenty of these same kind of articles on the pro-keto side that are also junk “science”.
@richard has talked about this before too. As we build a case for keto, it’s important not to play into the same junk science traps that took us down the low fat path.
Funny that article exists! I’m Canadian and my moms side consists of multiple indigenous groups, Métis being the majority. They almost all have diabetes, are all obese and most die in their 50’s-60’s. I wish I could get them to eat more traditionally again, because their diets are completely carbohydrate, sugar and processed food based, and everyone is leaving us too early 
I have read that too.
In the article I quoted above Dr. Wortman has been very low carb for 15 years and in the photo he looks as good or better than he did in his 2008 movie.
The Mayo Clinic article is a load of crap that two years ago I might have fallen for. Most of the references are based on opinion and the dietary guidelines (which are opinions too, and ridiculous ones at that). The one study from JAMA is an association study and as we all know association does not equal causation. It cites a bunch of causes of death including diabetes and then tries to associate meat and sodium with them. As we all know by now there is no association between meat consumption and diabetes.
As for the second article, it is an n=1. It is very interesting and I have a friend in that situation and I am tempted to send it to her but the other part of me wonders how this woman would have done with IF and keto instead?! There are people in the keto world who are concerned about the hormones in milk
That’s a fascinating rabbit hole, thank you. The possibility that not just our diet but the other advances of even the earliest “civilization” made us unhealthier as we went along …
Ah, my personal theory! I believe the further a substance gets from something the body would naturally encounter in the course of eating “in the wild”, the more suspect that substance becomes as a cause of disease. I’ve eaten soybeans, by nature they’re about as oily as quilt batting. What is this “soybean oil” of which you speak, General Mills?
I am snorting even harder!!!
The first article is like baytowvin said.
The second is an n=1 experiment (like we do here).
And from that same article
“There’s no good evidence to support avoiding all dairy with the aim of reducing cancer risk,” said Martin Ledwick at Cancer Research UK. “It isn’t known if avoiding dairy plays a role in stopping cancer coming back. “
In January, a new large-scale study using data from 262,195 British women suggested that consuming just 9g of bacon a day – less than a rasher – could significantly raise the risk of developing breast cancer later in life.
The World Health Organization has classified processed meats – including ham, salami, bacon and frankfurts – as a Group 1 carcinogen which means that there is strong evidence that processed meats cause cancer.
Nothing. This very well could come to pass and to some degree, I imagine it will. If we are hyper-realistic then we could say that it already has in some circles and never will in other circles. It is a case of subjective perception even within the medical community but in a much less emotional way, plainly due to research bias…
Dieting strikes at one’s sense of self-worth, no matter our background and character.
While defending a WOE is no different than defending a beloved idea, it also, as we all know (ain’t no novel idea), can be co-opted by the mind’s capacity to rationalize, even to the level of delusion.
Perhaps a less written about component of a healthy diet is one that promotes self-examination, humility and objective, deductive reasoning. I find keto-clarity to be supplemental to a right-sized sense of self.
Being able to admit our limits and our faults. This is one chink in the vegan’s armor; their fervent dogma.
Zealousness is a terrible advertiser for a Way of Eating.
Yes, with any forum, there is a herd mentality and hive mind. I think it’s good to be somewhat skeptical even if you do believe in something. Although I’ve done my research and think keto is great, I think there are some flaws and it’s not perfect, but then again what is? Scientists claim that everything causes cancer so I think it’s better not to worry about it too much and do whatever works for you.
Based on epidemiological data. At best, the data is only good to show general associations that can then be followed up with actual scientific studies.
The data itself generally doesn’t even show a correlation, yet they’re trying to imply there is causation. Like the other examples above, it’s not even that it’s bad science, it’s not science at all.
Right, there are a lot of confounding variables when it comes to studying diet. It’s really hard to find causation with any data. They’re not pulling these things out of their butt though so what is their motivation for these studies?
I like Keto but if there is evidence against it I am open to it. Lots of people ITT have confirmation bias and aren’t open at all to negative research against it. A peer reviewed longitudinal study with a p < .05 and n > 1,000 wouldn’t even convince them. Maybe it’s good to be a firm believer even if you might be wrong!
Yes, there are. I’m of the opinion that quality matters. Meat, dairy, fish, fruits, veggies, I care about the quality of all of them. I care how an animal lived and what they ate if I’m going to eat them or products coming from them. I care how my fruits and veggies were grown. I can’t control everything, even in stuff I grow or produce myself but I do the best I can.
Horror stories can be found for any of the above, meat, fish, fowl, and yes, fruits and vegetables too. There is seriously nasty stuff in all of those groups that I really do not want to eat. On the other hand, there are some really good foods to be had in all of those groups too. Buying local and getting to know people who produce what they’re selling helps me. (And yes, there is a local produce guy who’s stuff I won’t touch with a ten foot pole. He never met a chemical he didn’t like. He also never meets my cash!)
Yes and the USDA has classified grains as healthy for the last 50 years! I am no longer interested in what the Dietetic, Heart or World Health Organizations think. That ship has sailed. The best is that the AHA gets money to endorse products as heart healthy
Apparently the Seventh Day Adventists who are big on vegetarian diets and live a long time have a religious agenda since being vegetarian is considered good in their religion. They also do not smoke, drink much (I think, sorry not too familiar with the tenets), live in stable communities and go to church often. I have not seen a study comparing them to the Mormons who live in a similar manner but like their steak and chops
I found this interesting. I was not aware of the Mormons fasting. https://drjohnday.com/do-mormons-live-longer/
