Dairy, Histamine & Inflamation

#21

I think their are benefits of eating the walnuts, yogurt and blueberries first thing in the morning. If no discomfort then continue. Or eat separately and notice if there are any changes in how you feel.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #22

Thanks! It’s apparently something that’s going around. (I was afraid it might be COVID again–once was enough!)

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #23

The other big concern can be oxalate dumping (Google Sally K. Norton, M.P.H.; she became an expert, as the result of personal experience with the problem). It is a particular problem in people who were vegetarian or vegan for a number of years. (She says that’s why Paul Saladino eventually got into trouble as a carnivore; he had been a vegan, and the oxalate dumping eventually became a problem for him.) The problem is not the fact that oxalates are leaving the body; the crystals are sharp and can do a lot of damage, so getting rid of them is a very good idea; the problem is controlling the rate of dumping to minimise the damage they cause on the way out.

By the way, oxalic acid was discovered during an investigation into a rash of sudden deaths in England during the early 19th century, that all seemed to occur during rhubarb season (rhubarb is very high in oxalic acid). It turned out that the people’s oxalic acid consumption had reached a toxic level.

(Denise) #24

I hate having to say this, but the more I learn, the less foods I should eat at all. What I don’t want to ask, but will, what do meats have that are “bad for some people” and do the experts really mean just “some” people??

If folks are reading this that are thinking about keto, I can see why they would call it restrictive, but actually I forget, regular keto allows many of these foods I’m eliminating. Almonds!! High in oxilates!! I’m feeling depressed :frowning:

(Denise) #25

Ok, I’m gonna die of starvation, what else can I eat!! I was going to the market but have not idea what I can get! Are there any bugs I can snag along the way, maybe invest in a fly catcher, I think I going into pissed-off mode :frowning: see you all later when I get over it.

forgot my food diary so you can see my meal plan is way lacking, I’m going to the gym, then grocery store for something else I can safely eat:

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(Chuck) #26

I am 75 years old and have finally realized over the last 10 months that the problem is how my body reacts to certain foods and certain combinations of food eaten the in a day.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #27

There is a viral infection that can bestow an allergy to beef, I understand. If you’d contracted it, you’d know.

Otherwise, the only person I’ve heard of who can’t eat meat is an internist from the U.S. Midwest, whom Gary Taubes interviewed for his latest book, and who, for health reasons, needs to eat a vegan keto diet. Taubes does not go into details, neither in his videoed lectures nor in the book, but he seems to trust her account of herself, and he seems to be describing the conversation honestly. I can’t imagine how she copes, but she’s a doctor, and I’m not. :grin:

There are people who believe that carnivore is the only proper human diet. It may be very good for human health, but it is undeniable that many people can eat carbohydrates without ill effects, especially when they keep their intake low.

As for oxalates, the issue is really about how much we are consuming. Sally Norton, who has researched oxalates, explains that there are three levels of intake: the highest level keeps us storing more and more oxalates; the medium level doesn’t add to our store, but it doesn’t allow our body to get rid of oxalates, either; and the lowest level is what permits the body to excrete oxalates.

If you have a significant oxalate buildup, you probably don’t want to trigger massive oxalate dumping by eating an oxalate-free diet. Better to eat those nuts and those fruits that Sally recommends, to keep the dumping at a controlled rate. Also, she says, if you can get oxalic acid to bind with calcium, that renders it safe and easy for the body to excrete. (Please let me know if you check her site and discover I got it wrong.)

And even if you don’t have oxalates to get rid of, you can eat a small enough amount of oxalic acid to keep the body from storing it. Moreover, if your body can find some other way to get rid of the oxalates (such as through the skin, or in “crusties” around the eyes in the morning) in ways that don’t involve damage to the microtubules in the kidneys, then you’re golden.

Now, this is nonsense. :grin: You can eat beef, pork, lamb, goat, chicken, goose, duck, salmon, turbot, cod, monfkish, . . . Now, some of these may be less than ideal, but it all comes down to what your body can deal with. It doesn’t matter if someone else has a problem with if, if you thrive on it. Nor does it matter if someone else can eat something, but your body sickens when you eat it Trust your body. Do what works for YOU.

Consider this: if everything the human race has eaten over the past two million years were toxic, Homo sapiens would have gone extinct. We evolved eating large ruminant animals, so it is not likely that their flesh is going to poison us, unless we have some very rare and strange condition. We haven’t had a chance yet to breed them too far off the main line, so don’t worry about heritage meats, and the like. Remember Dr. Westman’s patient who lost an enormous amount of fat by eating at MacDonald’s because he was homeless and couldn’t afford better. He’d order from the dollar menu, “hold the bun, hold the fries,” eating only the meat and salad. No pop, either.

All you have to do is keep carb intake under 20 g/day, eat a reasonable amount of protein (for you!), and enough fat to satisfy your hunger. The rest is all tweaks, but not required. Keep Calm and Keto On!

(Denise) #28

Thanks, that was a good read lastnight. I came out of my pity-party earlier in the day and did decide to eat my regular diet including the little dairy I eat. I am just not ready to give up the small amount I eat, especially when I believe it’s the weather here dictating the allergies.

I know there is plenty of good things to eat, and I really didn’t want to invest in a fly-catcher, but I might consider chocolate covered ants if they have any essential nutrients.

I know you are not feeling good so I appreciated your info (an extra bunch) you shared with me. I don’t know when people here talk about evolving, meaning evolution theory, I honestly don’t believe in evolution, but what I believe is that over-indulgence in eating/drinking is what human’s problem is, at least those that have enough money to live “high off the hog”.

Eating and drinking, imo, has become something to always include in any social get-togerher. A lot of people don’t think of it as fuel, but more of a quick fix while watching the boob tube, and snacks in between meals?? I never thought I’d be giving up potato chips I don’t know what they put in those snacks that are so addictive, but their businesses are thriving, and obesity numbers are rising :pensive:

I just hope we get the word out, even when it’s uncomfortable to mention to others, it could save someones life, or at least give them hope there is a way out of all that stored fat.

#29

Can’t you eat fattier meat or add some fat? I could eat any amount of calories on carnivore as long as it wouldn’t be way above my needs, it’s so very easy for me… I love fatty pork, that helps, obviously… But there are options for eating fat, so so very many, even without dairy!
Can’t you plan a fattier meat and try to eat according to plan?

I agree, you should rather keep your dairy and nuts and whatever - if you really can’t eat on carnivore. I don’t understand why you can’t but we are all different. I don’t do carnivore either but I stay close and get the vast majority of my nutrients from carnivore food. I am healthy enough to handle some joyful extras and not evolved enough to resist temptation I get from living with a high-carber and having a fruit garden.
And of course, I am nowhere ready to give up my darling dairy… I wanted to try that, who knows, maybe some miracle would happen… But I only could do 1-2 days and I don’t feel I need to go that far. So I just keep my dairy intake low if possible.

Now I suspect even carnivore carbs can mess with me, to a tiny extent… I mostly mean my tendency for overeating, otherwise they feel great. As I eat less dairy (and eggs), I am fine with less food.
Maybe you have it similarly, just with a vastly different calorie range… And with way less (and on average leaner) meat.

#30

I’ve recently started reintroducing dairy, mainly for milk that I can use in sauces. I always used creams though. And cheese. No problem.

Everbody will be different, but I have noticed nothing detrimental to my health, retaking my low dosage of milk. Nothing.

(Denise) #31

Yes, that’s basically what I did yesterday Shinita, and I got over 1200 which is still short of what I need. I like my Pork Tenderloins, I buy them in packs of 2, and one will last me at least 3 meals! I need to read about the fattier cuts of red meat to buy and I do like my chicken thighs with skin on for sure. I just need to eat 2 of those, not just the one now that I only eat my meat for din.

I’m leaving out the dairy today for sure, and start on another 2-4 weeks without because I had an awful night, woke up with my nose totally stuff and had to irrigate with salt-water. Slept fine again after that. I also walked the beach drive so it could have been pollen. I won’t know unless I stay the heck off the dairy long enough though :slight_smile: I had my half and half, yogurt and cheese yesterday, so hard to know for sure which is the culprit, although it could be both.

ttyl, Denise :slight_smile:

(Denise) #32

That’s fortunate, and I take it you have no high cholesterol either, as Dr. Mason mentions folks on keto can sometimes get sky high cholesterol (ldl) which mine is imo, at 511. It shot up in the last 3 months from around 400, that’s quite a difference, but and my trigs went from 1. something to 3. something, have to look back to see those numbers again for accuracy on the trigs,.

(Bob M) #33

One of the problems with analyzing this is that it’s very difficult to test. I’d love to be able to test the effects of dairy through a blood test, but no one can tell me what blood tests actually test this.

(Denise) #34

I can see environmental allergies are able to detect as I’ve had them a couple of times in my life, but with foods, it’s pretty much up to us doing the elimination thing :frowning: Longggg process :frowning: