Cue the flaming arrows and boiling oil I have a question about calories

(Ethan) #21

It’s not mentally healthy to obsess over anything all the time. I think many of us just really want to succeed. We need to KCKO, but realistically and have fun!

(Candy Lind) #22

I have noticed my “cold feet” episodes have decreased recently. I also increased my caloric/fat intake! Maybe this explains it. I feel an “N=1” experiment coming on.

(Candy Lind) #23

What Alexia said. I’ve not been logging my food for a couple of weeks and I’ve gained; I’m certain I’m eating too much. Right macros, just not getting the “all stop” directives. So it’s back to Cronometer for me.

(Adam Kirby) #24

Everyone has had it drummed into them for decades that they alone have complete and total control over their weight via diet and exercise, and sadly for many this is not possible quickly, only time can fix what has been broken.

(Candy Lind) #25



I have the same question!!!


But some people have real problems hearing satiety signals. Dr Phinney says it takes 6 months before you can accurately judge satiety. Tim Noakes says some 10% of people (often women) never get to that point.

Part 2 of my response to this quote on satiety. Whenever I see the bolded part stated by someone who is supposed to be an authority (and I like Dr Phinney very much) I see red. Everyone is not alike. Everyone cannot feel reliable satiety. We repeatedly are told that we are not all alike, and that we respond to different things differently. Yet to imply everyone will ‘accurately judge satiety’ in 6 months is ridiculous IMO. Hence if I cant, it suggests I am broken. I may be damaged, but I am not broken. Some of us just have an additional challenge.

With respect to satiety, since I don’t happen to hear that signal, I’ve found that what works relatively well is to serve myself a specific amount - the amount that has tended to satisfy over time - eat that slowly, and then wait 10, 15 minutes. That amount is generally enough. If it’s not and I still feel actual hunger, I eat a bit more. Also, never have serving plates on the table so it is not easy to reach for more.

I may not have adequate satiety signals, but I can work around that.

(Trish) #28

Well, I’m eating to satiety, but typically that’s under 1000 calories a day. With a supposed TEE of around 1500 I’m relying on my body to pull the rest from my 50 pounds of excess fat, which seems reasonable per @richard above explanation, and in which case I should be losing a pound or more a week. Alas, I seem to be losing nothing. The way I understand it, those with excess fat who are indeed fat adapted should or at least could eat at a calorie deficit so as to utilize one’s own body fat with an end goal of weight loss. If one were to increase consumption to match TEE then the body has all it needs easily in the GI tract and has no need to work at getting at any stored fat thereby not affecting any weight loss. Having said that, the confusing part is that some people only seem to lose weight by increasing their calories in, which just leaves me perplexed. I truly hate shades of gray LOL.

(Arlene) #29

Me too!!! I’m thinking life could be defined by the word “struggle”. It seems nothing in this life is simple, least of all figuring out our bodies. I’m still trying to lose the last 35 fat pounds to get to a healthy weight. I’m not asking for the moon. I’m not asking for super skinny, just a reasonable weight, and I’m not in the mood to be patient after struggling for decades to make this happen. Ooh, that rant felt good.
Alas, keto on, and best of luck to all of us in figuring out our own magic formula to feel and look our best.

(Chris W) #30

If, over the course of your life, you have repeatedly tried to lose weight by restricting calories, then your TEE could be significantly less than what is calculated by BMR formulas. If this is the case, there may be ways to bring your metabolism back to normal levels, but it may not be realistic to expect to simultaneously increase metabolism and lose weight.

After my 1st several months of Keto with significant amounts of fasting, I switched to a zero carb (carnivore) diet. On ZC, I gradually increased my intake of fatty meat to the point where I was probably averaging 3500 calories per day. During this time, I gained a few lbs, but lost many inches. If the flawed CICO model held true, I should have probably piled on a bunch of body fat, but I did not. It seems most likely that part of the explanation is that my metabolism ramped up during this time.

Recently I started moderating my protein intake on ZC for better BG control (I’m T2D). I now start getting cold hands and feet at a much higher energy intake than I did before this period of protein and caloric excess, so that leads me to believe that at least some of the increase in metabolism is likely sticking around.

My focus at the moment is building lean mass through increased resistance training, so I do not seem to be losing much weight, but I am seeing the body fat % on my scale slowly start to creep down while eating adequate protein and enough fat to minimize cold hands and feet.


@cwstnsko interesting so how much protein do you eat per kg of lean body mass on zero carb? Are you drinking coconut oil to get in your fat calories? Just trying to figure out what zc would look like. I’m all for ramping up my metabolism it’s one of my reasons for fasting regularly. When I fast my body temperature increases a full degree.


Sure but when you see the scale go up a pound every day it makes you wonder…I don’t let it go above 5 pounds before I start a new fast so I’m not sure how long that would go on. Once I am at my ideal size, I’ll give fasting a rest for a week or two and see what happens with the scale. In the meantime, I am impatient and ready to get back to my healthier size. Not looking for a size 2. I’d be content at a size 8, 6 would be amazing but that may be too much to ask for at my age.

(Chris W) #33

Interesting, I had problems with cold extremities when I was doing extended fasting.

I currently have my protein target set at 2 g/kg LBM. Maximum hypertrophy (muscle building) is supposed to be supported at 1.6 g/kg. 2 gives me a little headroom above that and I seem to tolerate it well and maintain normal blood sugars. I was likely at 3.5 g/kg during much of the 6 months where I ate as much as I wanted, but I saw a slight increase in my a1c when doing that, so I am pulling back to a more moderate number. I don’t have coconut oil on ZC as it is plant based. I choose fatty cuts of meat, and seldom need to add fat by itself, but If I do, I’ll steal the fat my wife trims off her meat, or have a bit of butter. I cook most of my meat in a sous vide which prevents the fats from “escaping” during the cooking process :slight_smile:


Interesting… yes the increase in body temperature was a very welcome change as my body temperature before my fast was around 97.5 some days lower. I was tracking it daily for several weeks. I may give zc a go in the future and see what that looks like on me.

(Trish) #35

I’m one of those people who is always cold. Even as a child I’d be sitting in the sun with a blanket around me with everyone else sunbathing.

(Sandra ) #36

Sounds like my daughter, who has thyroid problems. Her first week of Erfan (dessicated thyroid) saw her hands and feet warm up, and she could throw off her excessive layers of clothing even at 66*F (winter house temp).

(Trish) #37

Well, I’m a year post Left thyroidecectomy after three years of misdiagnosis for what turned out to be thyroid cancer, but my TSH, T3, etc levels have always been within the normal range. I can be in room that’s 25 C and someone will touch my arm or leg and comment how cold my skin feels. I don’t have circulation issues though…to my knowledge, have no CV disease, normal EKG and Echo in the past as presurgical work up. I seem to be anomalous medically LOL

(Michele) #38

I think one thing to remember is that the “bell curve” applies to this (and so many other things). Therefore around 10% will be low-liers ie get to discover satiety ahead of the 6 months and 10% it will take longer. Of that group there will be extreme out-liers where it takes a very long time or either only vaguely or not at all.
Generalised statements need to come with a warning that they are a generalisation and may not apply to everyone. Scientists should know generalisations stated as absolutes are dangerous because the general public/laypeople may take them as a statement of fact in all cases.

(C Del) #39

OK. Newbie here posting for first time. TTD 63F 40lbsOW VLC. So, I can go many hours without eating. During this time I feel fine except for having an uncomfortable empty stomach and being thirsty (so drink more water). I then eat to satiety or maybe more. After this meal I would think that I should be able to go many hours before needing to eat again. But, shortly after,when the feeling of satiety starts to go away, I feel hungry again. What is happening here and should I just ignore this hunger. Thank you all for your help.

(Chris W) #40

My 1st thought would be that rapidly returning hunger might indicate that there might be some nutritional shortcoming in your meal, and your body is still asking to be fed. Do you have an example of a typical meal where you are hungry after a short time?