Cruciferous vegi question

(Alec) #21

(Alec) #22

Really? Can you please provide some references for that claim?

Our bodies were designed through evolution, and for the past 3 million years or so, the diet we have been designed around has been a meat based diet. Plants only eaten if really necessary. We started eating plants in any quantity around 10,000 years ago, and that is not long enough to claim that is the basis for our “design”.

(Alec) #23

Most gets processed through the animals digestion: I agree some make it through, but the volume is very low compared to eating the actual plant. And you’ve gotta eat something, so I’d rather eat the animal with low toxins than the plant with high toxins.

(Todd Chester) #24

Here is a description of how your body handles cyanide:

In small doses, cyanide can be metabolized into thiocyanate with the assistance of the hepatic enzyme, rhodanese. Thiocyanate is then excreted in urine.

(Todd Chester) #25

Humans are omnivores. We eat/ate both. That is why we were called hunter gathers. We are like bears, except we don’t eat carrion. We get very, very sick if we do not have our vitamin C. Yes, you can get that from narwhal skin, but few of us have/had access to that.

If you are referring to us hybridizing grains with high glycemic levels of carbohydrates not found in nature for better beer that starting all this insulin resistance thing, then you have a point. Grok, my favorite cave man, would not have even bothers to stoop down to pick those tiny seeds before we had hybridized them.

I do prefer both. I keep my plant carbohydrate glycemic load to a minimum. I especially adore red meat, but I have to be careful of too much as it drives my blood sugar up, though, fortunately, slowly.

I am not in the slightest bit worried about naturally occurring toxins in the edible plants I eat. My body is equipped to handle that. I see the benefits far, far outweighing the risks.

Today, I am on my two day fast. So, of course, I decided to cook (and not eat). Sounds masochistic, but it does not bother me and the creativity is enjoyable. One of the things I cooked was my homemade spaghetti sauce. Can not wait till tomorrow to get my daily dosage of nightshade from the tomatoes.

(Alec) #26

The full quote is this…

“After exposure, cyanide quickly enters the bloodstream. The body handles small amounts of cyanide differently than large amounts. In small doses, cyanide in the body can be changed into thiocyanate, which is less harmful and is excreted in urine.” [my emphasis]

Still doesn’t sound optimal, does it? And what about the lectins, the oxalates, the alkaloids, the sulforaphane, the phytic acid, the saponins, the tannins, and the other more than hundred known carcinogens that are present in plants? Are they all “handled” by the body?

And meat has got plenty enough vitamin C to not be deficient as long as you aren’t eating carbs. What benefits do you see in eating plants?

(Todd Chester) #27

All the above is a matter or dosage. Yes, and even too much water will kill you too.

Benefits: vitamins and minerals and joy.

There is C in beef, but not a lot. The Inuit, who are almost totally carnivorous, still have to make a tea out of lichens and pine needles to get their C.

My favorite source of C is those little mini peppers I get a costco, especially the orange ones. I eat them raw.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #28

This is true for people on a high-carb diet, since elevated insulin inhibits the expression of a gene complex that produces our body’s endogenous defences against oxidation. However, Eric Verdin and his group have shown that, on a ketogenic diet, the β-hydroxybutyrate produced by the liver acts on those same genes to restore our endogenous anti-oxidants.

The ability of fresh meat to prevent scurvy has been known for several centuries. The problem the British Navy faced was that, on long deployments away from shore, the livestock would eventually all be eaten, and the sailors would have to subsist on hardtack (ship’s biscuit) and salt beef. The Board of Admiralty deemed keeping a store of lemons and limes aboard ship to be more effective than allowing ships to return to port to purchase more animals.


@PaulL, I SO SO appreciate your correcting the BIG misinformation out there on simple issues like Vit C! ugh…so much wrong out there on simple truths about issues like minerals/vits/ and more.



I find most green leaves tasting like grass.
But kale (in the right dish, at least, we only use it that single way) is irresistibly delicious to me - when it’s not bitter. It’s a hit and miss to me :smiley: I avoid it or eat half the big pot :smiley:
Spinach on the other hand is awful to me except in tiny amounts in baked goods…

But it’s still just me. Tastes differ A LOT.

I don’t need any plants so I don’t care about their nutritional value at all :slight_smile: Except maybe Vitamin C? I may need that. I don’t really know but the majority of my food intake has zero vitamin C and the rest is mostly meat and I cook the hell out of it… I didn’t get scurvy yet though so I don’t worry about it, I merely wonder sometimes how do I get enough of it… But I don’t even know how much vitamin C my meat contains to begin with but the excessive cooking surely reduces it even if some remains…


Sounds hedonistic to me… I always love cooking when fasting especially when I am hungry but need to last for another hour… It helps a lot.
Of course, some people are different :slight_smile: Maybe most. But cooking gives me food joy and I can’t help but focus on it. When I am really hungry and need food, I can’t focus on anything but cooking. So it’s a great thing when I do need cook then. (I wasn’t starved, I would have eaten then. I could wait a little bit more so I did, in the most enjoyable way I could.)

Interesting… I haven’t heard about that yet! But I’ve read than many of them was near scurvy.
Well it changes nothing for me, I would trust that carnivore gives me the needed tiny amount of Vitamin C even with my cooking habits - and if not, I will notice the early signs of scurvy I suppose…?
But that would be for proper carnivore that I hardly will ever do. I do love my lemon juice and other tiny extras :slight_smile: Though I looked it up and my lemon juice has almost no Vitamin C (due to the tiny amount). So let’s hope the meat retains enough :wink:

The last is individual but yep, sometimes it’s lovely to have 5-10g of radish with my meat. Not every day so I consider the effect of the vegs on my life negligible. Except the joy, that definitely helps, that’s why I eat them.
If we eat animal products properly, we don’t need those vitamins and minerals as we get it from better, safer items.

But don’t misunderstand me, I am fine with people eating lots of plants, even lots of carbs. Each to their own. As long as they don’t think we all should eat plants as it’s just wrong.

(Eve) #33

I am very happy to continue with a small amount of veg in my daily diet, including some delicious, scrumptious, kale :yum:


How do you eat kale? My SO knows one dish with it and that’s carby. It’s fine for him and I don’t need vegs, per se… But I like cooking and I am curious. (Not enough to search for recipes, that wouldn’t end well, research tends to swallow me up… I do that enough for my own stuff.)
Normal cabbage is better as I tend to fry everything and cabbage responds well to that (and it’s always sweet and lovely and good even raw). Kale doesn’t (and isn’t).

(Eve) #35

@Shinita What l tend to do is boil it first and then finish it off in the frying pan with some fat. Or, after boiling, sprinkle some parmesan on and crisp it under the grill. Or l just have it boiled with some butter on. I also always season veg with garlic plus whatever herbs l fancy.
Because l really like kale, as long as it is properly cooked, any form is fine!

(Bob M) #36

@PaulL Amber O’Hearn also thinks there’s a protein that “stands in” for Vitamin C or at least lessens its need. I can’t remember which one, though.

@Shinita One trick is to get fresh kale and salt it and leave it for a while (half hour?). A final trick is to pressure cook it:

Something like that.

Otherwise, the stem part in particular can be tough.


@0cac544b99285298bde6: These sound good! Thanks! I will tell my SO :slight_smile: He needs his veggies and get very little since the freezer is for meat, the fridge is for meat, cheese and whatnot but a big cabbage just can’t fit and I don’t cook veggie dishes… I am willing to cook very simple carby dishes but most vegs are too much work for something non-satiating end result though I understand when it’s for joy… I used to eat lots of vegs for that.

@ctviggen: Thanks for you too! :slight_smile: We will experiment.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #38

I don’t know anything about that, but it sounds sort-of reasonable. Also, there is probably Vitamin C in meat; the USDA food database just says “assumed 0”.

(Todd Chester) #39

Try throwing apple cider vinegar, olive oil, and a diced tomatoes into it. Sometimes add an avocado and a couple of boiled eggs. Yum!

Spinach raw is yummy, but cooked is horrible!

Vitamin C truly does not like to be cooked. From what I do not get from meat, I supplement with those sweet mini (sweet) peppers I can get in a bad from the supermarkets and costco. I would prefer them a little hot, but they are not. They taste exactly like a bell pepper. The orange ones are the vegetable champion of vitamin C. The red ones are about 2/3 as much.

(Todd Chester) #40

Where the Inuits get into real trouble is when they are near enough to the convenience stores and start eating the SAD (Standard American Diet). Then they get all of “white man’s diseases” is spades. Especially T2 Diabetes and obesity. SAD is addictive.

Don’t over cook and try to get grass feed when possible. I found that grass fed is to nutrient dense that I only eat about 2/3 as much, so it brings the price down to natural and grass fed.

By the way, “grass finished” is not grass fed. It is standard stock yard feed up till a few weeks before harvest. The cows are still sick from the grain diet.

Three years ago I lost my source of grass fed beef and had to switch to natural and organic. M y beef nutrient value was probably cut in half. The lock downs ran most of the small businesses out of business. I can still get reasonably priced ground buffalo from costco and the rancher gave me the run down on how they are fed: they are grass fed.

Question: what did the buffalo say to his son when he left for college?

Answer: Bison.