So I am 70” tall with a 31-32”. I started borderline obese somewhere around 37”. I don’t think that general formula is very accurate anymore than BMI. It’s a complex measurement. If I had stopped at 35” I would be overweight still by a lot.
As far as more body fat being “healthier” as we age I have serious questions as to the validity of that. First any and all information will be speculated based on the SAD, not ketogenic or carnivore eating. Any studies will inevitably leave endless confounding differences between subjects unexplored. Secondly I have to wonder if it’s actually just acceptable to get fatter on a carb diet, since the typical medical/dietary guidelines seem to be so tied to corporate profits influencing studies to keep profits up selling crap food and medicine. If you look at the people who live to be over 100 they are almost invariably lean. Personally my plan is to eat keto/carnivore the rest of my life and let my body chose the fat percentage it’s comfortable with. I am continually leaning out now and expect further shifts in body composition towards lower body fat without significant carbohydrate intake at 60 years old. Fruit is worthless IMHO. Eat meat, it’s what the body needs.
amwassil
(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.)
#22
I agree with you David, aging does not mean that more body fat % is healthier and like you I suspect the studies that support that contention are of SAD eaters. I doubt it really applies to them either due to confounders. Is there any RCT in support?
I’m 74 with sub 15% BF. Although I am and look very lean, I feel great! I have a full-time job that requires a fair amount of physical endurance and I suspect most 74-year olds would not be capable of it. If I had 20+% BF I’d feel like a slug. I’d like more lean muscle mass but I suspect that’s not going to happen without a lot more iron pumping than I’m ever likely going to do. Still, I’m strong enough for what I need to do.
@FrankoBear I understand the fact that abdominal fat indicates insulin resistance. My point was at a 2:1 of height to waist I still had lots of abdominal fat. Some things that might also influence matters are how wide your pelvis and rib cage are. Are you tall and thin or short and stocky genetically? Do you have significantly more abdominal muscle than most people? Also, heard of TOFI? That golden ratio doesn’t account for the huge amount of insulin resistant or diabetic slim people that are unhealthy with perfect ratios.
I understand what you’re saying David. The waist to height ratio is an improvement on BMI. And is an aspirational guide used by leading LCHF doctors in the mix of investigations.
I agree that clothes fit is a better health measure than body scale weight as well.
Rib and pelvis (skeletal) width variability are negated, if the ‘waist’ is measured properly between the base of the ribs and the top of the pelvis. I do think the aim is to consider visceral fat in the measurement as much as subcutaneous belly fat, probably visceral fat more so due to the position of the waist and the pendulous nature of belly fat.
But you’re right that it is not a be all and end all measurement. It has its place in context.
Insurance companies need “a number” to caterogise people in or out of a healthy weight range. It’s not perfect but it works for them and doctors too. Stand in front of a mirror and you can see if you are overweight. This is not perfect either as people with eating disorders can not correctly see in a mirror their own weight. They need to refer to the BMI chart for a more accurate reading. Did I mention nothing is perfect?
Just sayin. When god passed out hips I got zilch. So if that ratio is an indicator of health, I’m screwed. A year and a half on keto and by afternoon I look five months pregnant. I dont handle fats well.
No measurement is perfect, including waist to height ratio.
It’s also surprisingly easy to mess up. A lot of people think their pants measurement is their waist measurement, or measure somewhere other than their actual waist.
Some would say fasting, if they are fat adapted. Fasting in the 72hour range. Then proper feasting.
Others would say a Keto diet makeover, and like a rising air balloon, jettisoning some things no longer needed, for example; nuts, any remnant Keto snacks so that 2TAD is real, and taking a dairy holiday.
Ok. Fair enough. But Fung recommends that underweight females not fast. I’m at two meals a day. Seeing as I’m pushing 62 maybe its beyond my control. But the constant bloating is disturbing. The secret may be breaking down and discussing with my doctor?
Could it be a bacterial or fungal/yeast overload in the small intestine - as bloat is a common symptom? (also, cramping, gas, among other things).Holistic nutritionist Ricki Heller is a great resource on anti-candida ways of eating - she generated the first anti-candida dietary guidelines way back.
And Grace Liu PhD (her training includes 4 years in plant biology, bachelor in nutritional science and food science, doctorate in pharmacy) has a wealth of knowledge and client case studies. She says that 100% of people with gut dysbiosis - which means most all of us born and/or raised with lots of antibiotics in the SAD culture - have some kind of overload, even LCHF/keto people who’ve improved various biomarkers. The symptoms can greatly subside with nutrient density, but the root microbial imbalance is usually still there and needs lots of microbial nutrition (she prescribes lots of soil-based probiotics herself).
Starting around minute 15 in the below interview, she goes into lots about it root causes and the importance of probiotics - beware that there are lots of long latin names for bacteria that are spoken quickly lolol.
(if you click into the ‘show more’ section on the youtube page and scroll down, there are time stamps on various topics covered and further links)
Well – yes and no. There are metabolically healthy people that are fat and TOFIs. Fat consistency and distribution is different, but still…
IMO it’s best to have HOMA-IR measured. It’s not terribly accurate but it gives a good indication. Also a fatty liver is a sure sign of IR, usually it’s possible to get an ultrasound that is covered by insurance.
Base metabolism goes down even in the 72h category, so this may be less effective than shorter fasts. Personally I wouldn’t worry too much, we have the rest of our lives to lose whatever fat we want to lose. Belly fat will take care of itself. But if you do care, I’d suggest other day fasting or 24h intermittent fasting.
Eat when you’re hungry. It’s that simple
Bloating usually comes from too much fibre, or possibly from dairy products. Cut out both, if that helps reintroduce one and see if it causes the bloating. Personally I can eat butter, cream and mascarpone but only very little casein (milk, cheese, quark). I’m almost carnivore because of constipation, has done wonders for me.
I guessed it would be difficult to find ‘cream’ where I am (not quite outside civilisation, but not really inside either). It starts with the question what exactly do you mean when you say cream? I tend to associate with whipped cream, but due to the sugar contents, this can’t be what you meant. Someone else tells me fx butter is made of cream. Sucking on butter for a good throat feeling doesn’t sound like a winning formula to me.
What would be something that meets the low-carb requirements (and mine with regard to hoped throat feeling) I can buy in a food mart/market, also in an exotic country? Alternatively, could a restaurant make something suitable and inexpensive?
I have a nice flat stomach on carnivore, but my stomach is puffy by evening when I eat carbs.
Also, food intolerance will definitely cause bloating.
If I recall, sometime back you did a month long dairy free trial and actually felt better, but you ended up going back to dairy anyway. We are often addicted to things to which we are allergic.
Half a papaya is way too much for ketosis. Even small amount of sugary food (papaya) will cause your pancreas to produce insulin and block ketosis. You can eat it occasionally (if you can manage the cravings that usually follow) but not on a regular basis if you want to stay in ketosis.
For packaged food simply look at the macros. A ratio of 1:10 carbs to fat or better is ketogenic as it implies max 5% calories from carbs. (Any protein is a bonus.) 1:5, well, you can have some but not too much. Worse, chances are you’re better off avoiding the stuff.
Avoid any artificial ingredients. Cream has only one ingredient: Milk. No emulsifiers, no preservatives and certainly no sugar.
Everything else depends on where you are. I’m not counting calories at all, but I do know which food I can eat until I’m full and which food I have to limit or avoid. For example I limit pistachios (13g carbs per 100g) and avoid cashews (30g carbs) but I eat as many macadamias as I like.
Avoid anything that tastes sweet. Sugar (and sweeteners) are addictive so it’s often hard to break the habit, but once you did it you’ll be fine. (Some people can eat something sweet like fruit occasionally, others report sugar cravings for days.)
In restaurants it’s often possible to avoid rice, potatos, bread, pasta and have it replaced with nonstarchy vegetables or salad. For a hamburger throw away the buns and you’re fine (unless there are monster amounts of sugary ketchup).
That throat feeling will go away with time. Believe me, it’s easier to cut out all sweet stuff.
Berries and cream (or creme fraiche/mascarpone) are a great ketogenic dessert or snack btw.
Bloating usually means your gut bacteria ferment food which produces gas. Simple as that. It’s not inherently bad but usually means something is wrong. There are many reasons why this could happen, low stomach acid among them. (So many people take PPIs.) I worry more about stuff that causes true autoimmune reactions like leaky gut, where people often don’t have GI related symptoms at all.
As for milk, there are solutions for some of us There are 2 ingredients that often cause problems: Lactose and casein. Some people can eat cheese (casein but virtually no lactose) while others like me tolerate cream (some lactose but virtually no casein). Some pepsin can help digesting dairy.
Thanks for trying hard, but most was lost on me. Not really being savvy in food matters (and obviously not able to cook), plus being in a country with an illegible script and incomprehensible language, I would need some very concrete info on what I can replace papaya with for in-between snacks. This is important in order to have a good throat feeling, because having it means we can go for hours without eating.
So I have understood that cream is (or might be) a solution. I’ve heard that cream is what comes out on top during milk production, and butter is made of it. Ok, but the way I remember butter, it does not appear to be the right in-between snack for a good throat feeling.
So again the question: Are there any other ready-made cream products that might fulfill the requirements better? If not, could a restaurant make something affordable that I could take away? What would it be, what would they have to do?
