Crisis phase during low-carb slimming process

#1

When I started eating low-carb about 2 1/2 months ago, I weighed 86 kg (male, 70 yo). I’m now down to about 74, from 75 the week before.

I check my weight once a week, and today I found that it had gone up again to 74.5 - shock. I already had trouble to get below 75, so is this the end? I would like to reach my ideal weight, which would be 67 kg (18.5 BMI x height squared).

In the morning, I have a natural yoghurt (5 g carbs?). At noon some meat or fish and vegetables (25?). In the evening, a mixed salad (10?). For inbetween, I drink water and eat half a papaya (about 300 g = 20 g carbs?). For sports, I do 1/2 hour swimming, 5 times a week. And it’s hard to imagine that this might not be sufficient, because I find it hard already now to hang on.

Are there any people among you who have made similar experiences, and possibly overcome such a dead spot? Would be interesting to hear what you suggest .)

(Polly) #2

A BMI of 18.5 seems very low. Is there any reason why you think this is your ideal weight?

(Polly) #3

https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/lifestyle/what-is-the-body-mass-index-bmi/

The National Health Service reckons a BMI of 18.5 to 24.9 is the healthy range.

(Pete A) #4

Your weight will fluctuate and .5 is hardly a gain. You can more closely track the carbs, as well as calories, fat, protein if you want to. You can focus on staying under 20 carbs and getting more fat into your diet…but it sounds like you’re doing great!

#5

You’re doing fine for the short time you have given it. Maybe not an actual crisis. But that’s the thing about crises they are what they are in the thoughts of the beholder. The overall picture you describe is actually the opposite to a crisis, maybe?

I find the swimming makes me hungry. But it’s a good physical activity. In some people who naturally intensify their timed activity due to the energising effect of nutritional ketosis will start to build lean body mass, which becomes a factor in the mathematics.

Do you need the papaya? It might be holding you back from your goals.

I’d agree BMI is not a good goal whereas a waist measurement less than 100cm is a good target.

Even better are healthy blood test bio markers.

#6

Thanks for writing! I read that 18.5 - the BMI threshold between normal weight and underweight - is defined as ideal weight. Also, at 74 kg (while looking slim) I still have a little surplus fat around my belly, according to my impression. I also read that we ought to preserve 3 % of body weight as the minimum for fat, thus in this case about 2 kg. So I feel that (at least in theory) there is more ground to make…

(Polly) #7

Interesting! What makes it “ideal”, I wonder?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4115619/#!po=12.0690

This paper indicates that longevity is associated with being in the 25 to 29 BMI range, and I think it deals with all cause mortality. Made me think, anyway!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #8

74 year old male here. Started keto 3 years ago for the health benefits but lost about 35 pounds anyway. BMI is useless don’t waste time with it. Buy a caliper and tape measure. They are far more useful tools than BMI. Weight loss is not a linear process so it’s the long term trend that matters, not short term up/down fluctuations. However, I think you’re eating too many carbs from what you’ve described. There’s zero need to eat fruit and veggies on keto and very easy to eat too many carbs if you do. Especially if your initial goal is weight loss.

#9

Hi, thanks for reacting. You might be right, I had just expected a consistent progress, no phases of regress…

Do I need the papaya? I need something for in-between, and of all the fruit sorts, papaya is only 7 g (plus has a nice flavour and doesn’t prevent digestion). I do realise that the quantity I eat makes about 20 g carbs, and I would love to cut that - but how can I replace it? It’s not really about eating something, but more about a ‘smooth throat feeling’ - with that, you (or at least I) can go for hours without eating/drinking.

And my waist measured across the navel is 92 cm, plus blood tetst results were fault-free (a slightly elevated uric acid level, though).

#10

Start reducing the amount. Halve it, then halve it, etc.

As you move to lower carbohydrate and nutritional ketosis, not feeling hunger, or the need for smooth throat feel, will become the new normal. It will become normal to not need to eat for many hours and many people end up just eating one or two meals per day with no in-between meals. It’s in those times when not eating that the important recovery things happen in a human body and stored body fat is used for fuel.

92cm waist is great. If you are 184cm tall, it is perfect. It’s good to aim for that waist measurement to be half your height.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #11

Just curious. What is that?

#12

I don’t have an ‘official’ motivation to quote, but with a little thinking this would appear a logical conclusion: If 18.5 is the border between underweight and normal weight, then everything above it (til 25) would be less desirable - the further up the more so. So sticking near 18.5 would seem ideal to me. Which then multiplied by your squared height is your target weight.

I’ve seen that you’ve quoted a lengthy scientific article about this issue that may have reached more conclusions. At this stage, I feel no need to doubt the correctness of this term (‘ideal weight’) but promise to keep an open mind along the way .)

#13

That’s my term. In lieu of a definition, I will give you an example, for easier understanding: Your throat can feel bad after eating, due to what you eat. You may feel kind of coarse and need to harrumph for hours sometimes, without really reaching a result. (You may experience it yourself but have not yet felt the need to pinpoint and define it.)

This can be avoided by eating/drinking what is ‘good for your throat’. I assume it is some kind of allergic reaction of your body that chooses this place to make you reconsider your evil ways .)

That was the answer for you, now my question to all: So there’s no lower-carb fruit-type alternative to papaya then? I don’t think that having a fx egg would do the trick. Ok, I will have to go to the gym, on top of swimming…

#14

‘Start reducing the amount. Halve it, then halve it, etc.’

I’ve already reduced the amount to 1/3 - they’re being sold here as half papayas and cut = 300 g, and when I started I had 3 such per day. Of course I could buy a whole fruit and cut it myself then follow your advice, but my feeling is that this requires a near superhuman effort. If there’s no viable alternative to papaya, weight lifting at the gym could be the way out for normal humans…

Regarding body fat for fuel, my theory was that this happens during my swimming? And I’m actually 1.90

#15

Depends on one’s allergies. I would say fat has a nicer throat feel than fruit. Cream would be the top of the list (35% fat). If you want a fruitier version, then blueberries and cream. If dairy is not allowed due to allergy, move to avocado. If one wants a fruity non-dairy but creamy low carb throat slide coconut cream whipped with strawberries will probably do the job.

190cm tall and 92cm waist! Yo-yo yo are already in very good shape. Well done. Throw away the BMI. You probably should be researching optimising maintenance, strength and balance (gravity based activity, cf or to complement swimming) and bio markers in the great shape you are in.

Crisis has been averted, methinks.

#16

‘Depends on one’s allergies’

That (cream) sounds like an interesting idea. I think I will pursue that, to possibly replace papaya, or fruit in general. However it may take several days (or even weeks) until I have made up my mind as to exactly ‘how to’, so don’t expect feedback tomorrow. Anyway, thanks a lot for that! And weight-lifting at the gym (as an add-on benefit) is still not off the cards…

#17

One would hope for an elevated cholesterol, at least high range, at your age and on a low carb diet. That higher cholesterol aim should be in concert with an increased high density lipoprotein (HDL) marker and low in the range triglycerides.

As for the uric acid level, do you have any gout symptoms? Sore joints? Sometimes uric acid blood levels can be increased in people who enjoy a regular alcoholic drink.

Yo-yo at 70 years old the accumulated curiosity, health seeking and described activity is inspirational. You should consider becoming a coach for the wiser generation, once you get your approach sorted out to your satisfaction. KCKO (Keep Calm and Keto ( low carb) On. :slightly_smiling_face:

#18

@cooked David, have you seen this thread? Any tips for 1yoyo from your experience?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #19

Thanks. What you’re describing is excessive and/or irritating mucous in your throat and back of your mouth after and/or while eating. Possibly between meals as well.

The mucous is there to perform some useful functions and we all have more or less of it. I’d rather err towards more rather than less, even if that means I have to ‘clear’ my throat occasionally. Irritation, though, is another matter. The mucous is not there to irritate your throat and irritation is a symptom that something’s wrong.

As you suggest and as @FrankoBear has concurred, the irritation may be due to minor allergy to one or more foods you’re eating. Or some specific ingredient. It may be due to chronic (and perhaps otherwise unnoticed) illness making your throat more sensitive and/or changing the chemistry of the mucous. It could be due simply to ‘clearing’ your throat constantly and thus exposing the sensitive inner layer to air. It could also be due to drainage from your sinuses into your throat, as it is in my case.

By eating sugar syrup you’re just covering up the symptom. It may work temporarily, but you’d be better served to determine what the underlying cause is and fix that, rather than keep applying a sugar syrup bandaid.

(KCKO, KCFO 🥥) #20

Check out the carbs in your fruits here, also lots of infographs on other foods as well, some info is free others require a subscription, but this is one of the best sources for quick info on carb counts for free out there.

Weight loss is not linear, no matter how you eat. A stall is usually a month or longer. A couple of weeks is just a blip on your journey. Our bodies like to readjust themselves and often can stall for months at a time.

Be patient, KCKO.