Creatine while fasting

(Michael ) #1

I started taking creatine monohydrate again a few weeks ago, primarily for potential cognitive benefits. I’m interested in the proposed health benefits of creatine, and better gym performance is a plus. I’ve been taking it while intermittent fasting and it doesn’t seem to have any side effects or impact on ketosis.

I’m continuing it on my fast since it’s most effective after prolonged consumption. Anyone have experience with creatine while fasting more than a day? Hunger? Effectiveness? I’m only about 36 hours into fast and i feel fine. I remember reading that creatine was more effective with elevated insulin and carbs, but sometimes it’s hard to differentiate science and “bro science.” I’m hesitant to believe the mainstream body building community as they were the ones that convinced me to drink a chocolate milk shake with a maximum of 30 g protein every couple hours. And make sure you drink it within 40 minutes of strength training. My progress in the gym without following any of the protein rules has made me skeptical of that entire community. Unfortunately, they’re the primary group of creatine advocates so unbiased information is hard to come by.

(Cristian Lopez) #2

Let me put out the facts…

Bro science debunked—>

No you dont need too drink a protein shake every hour that just teaching your body too use gluconeogenesis (protein/muscle breakdow) if your ingesting 30g and up every hour geez

Theres no science too timing protein its just for convenience,you could eat all your protein totals in the morning and workout and post work out literally eat a stick of butter and you would still have the amino acids from earlier (complete protein) flowing too your muscles. DONT recommend ever doing this but you see its not really convenient but all I am saying is dont stress about it

While insulin spikes do help deliver creatine you naturally have an insulin spike after a workout so its a more convenient time too take creatine around (before/after) the time you work out is truly adequite. DO not take it unless your about too work out, other wise you might as well take c4 after your workout and eat a steak right before your work out (exaggerating)

message me for more questions?

(Mistie Carlson Maul) #3

What about a post workout shake? We are doing 21 day jump start program

(Ken) #4

Effectiveness is highly debatable, as are many supplement recommendations of the “Fitness Community”. In my past, I swear I’ve tried them all, but I can’t say I’ve had significant positive effects from any of them. Much of the dogma is oriented towards “Hard Gainers” who naturally carry low levels of body fat, but often have difficulty adding large amounts of muscle mass, hence the use of Gear. Remember, a professional bodybuilder is only really one who receives a promotional/endorsement contract from a supplement manufacturer as that’s really the only way to make money within the sport/industry. It doesn’t mean the person has actually used the product.

Creatine is used on a fairly wide basis, but using it before experiencing a training stall is questionable, but it may assist in breaking a plateau. It’s real effect appears to assist muscles in holding water, a process also accomplished by salt.

IMO, whole foods combined with vitamin and mineral supplements if needed is perfectly fine. Protein powders are essentially overpriced convenience foods, with the concept of the after workout feeding window being false. They also spike insulin with dubious effects, as normal protein digests very slowly, more like over a 24 he period, providing the body with a fairly constant supply.

There’s lot’s of nuttiness out there designed by people who want you to buy their stuff. There’s even some of the same type nuttiness drifting into the keto concept, self appointed gurus pop up from time to time.

(charlie3) #5

Here’s what I believe at this point. Protein (meat in particular) and fats take a while to digest. They may be trickling into the blood stream for a day or more after you eat them (reference to Mayo clinic). Chances are the protein synthesis you stimulated training today is supported by amino acids you ate yesterday. I believe bodybuilder style nutrition timing is deceptive marketing.

My understanding is creatine suppliment encourages muscle to take on more energy so you have more energy in the muscles to make them work harder in a particular session. I have no use for that even if it works. Why push the muscles even harder when there are so many other ways to do that already without buying products. I’m content with slower muscle development rather than all the risks of trying for fastest possible progress. I say spend your money on real food instead of powders and exotic suppliments.

(Brandon Keown) #6

So for my current background, I am a competitive olympic lifter. I will share my personal relationship to creatine shortly, but I do want to point out that muscle goals and muscle specialization can vary widely (and thus how and why you should take creatine), and that “weightlifting” is not something that can really be adequately grouped together at this level of discussion.

For example, if you are body building, you are predominantly working any sort of growth, so sarcoplasmic growth (water retention basically) of muscles is admissible (makes them look big, but they won’t be any stronger). If you are a strong man competitor, your primary desire will be myofibrillar growth and CNS/PNS recruitment through a broad variety of movements. If you are a powerlifter, the constant slow loading of muscles will specialize the fibers differently, and you predominantly don’t want to lift more weight than you absolutely have to (i.e. excessive water). If you are an olympic lifter, like myself, you need anything that will speed you up the most. Generally this means less body fat, more myofibrillar growth, and the primary adaptation of muscle fibers into the type 1 glycolytic ATP/PC consuming variety. Finally, if you are a crossfitter, you need a more endurance oriented relationship to lifts in order to make it through a 20 minute WOD (probably less maximal effort throughout a range of motion, and more general anaerobic energy system in play, lactic acid cycle is important here).

Creatine offers a wide range of benefits, as well as effects. In the presence of carbohydrates, it definitely seems to increase sarcoplasmic growth in muscles, which make them bigger looking, but not better performing. I have not really found this to be the case for me in a ketogenic diet. I definitely can feel the difference between creatine loaded exercise and non creatine loaded exercise, despite being questioned about confirmation bias. I have cycled on it and off of it enough in the past 10 years of a variety of exercise to know how it effects my lifts.

Specifically, creatine is used in one of the lowest energy layers of the body, the Adenosine Triphosphate/Creatine Phosphate system. To me, what this means, is in a sport like olympic lifting, where you have to have maximum power production (greatest energy in shortest amount of time) the primary recruitment mechanism is type 1 glycolytic muscle fibers which require ATP/PC in order to contract properly. Please note that while salt is required for contractile potential, the actual energy doing the work is creatine dependent.

Proper neurological training of the movements is predicated on proper muscular contraction. Especially during a fasted state, and somewhat less so during just normal keto (because you get replenishment elsewhere), creatine is essential to proper muscular contraction. Unlike body building, you are not using the muscles for show, you have to both train them to be strong, and train them to respond. The snatch is an incredibly technical movement, and under 150kg of weight, the smallest mistake in timing or technique gets magnified 10-fold. So if you are going to train fasted, you must ensure that the muscles be able to still contract properly so that you are not training poor motor patterns. Practice doesn’t make perfect; perfect practice makes perfect. This is why I use creatine in a fasted state, and in general (as I train 24 hr fasted generally).

Your mileage may vary depending on your training regimen and your specific muscular adaptation goals.