Crashed at the 2 week mark

#1

I had tagged this onto the end of an older thread and then realized that may have not been the right thing to do so posting here instead. Sorry if you end up reading it in two places.

I used the Search engine and found some posts about fatigue at the 2 week mark because today is day 15, and I have CRASHED. For the past 14 days my energy has been through the roof and first half of today I was a busy little bee, too, clear-headed, efficient, and multi-tasking. I went home for lunch as I always do and had a hot dog, half an avocado, and a 2" x 3" square of coconut meat. I’m now back at the office and I barely made it up the stairs and I can’t even focus on the monitor… my head just wants to fall. I’m guzzling coffee to see if I can get enough steam to finish out the day but my productivity is gone, and it feels like my brain cells are, too.

I’m eating about 1500 calories a day, staying under 25 carbs, usually a little over my fat macro and a little under my protein macro. I’m taking a multi-vitamin, B12, Vitamin D and magnesium. Is this just part of the process? Starting Friday I will be able to give in to it and stay on the couch for the weekend if I need to but tomorrow I have to get myself to the family festivities.

Couple of questions, please:

  • Anyone think this crashing fatigue might perhaps be a sign that we’re becoming fat adapted? Seems like more than coincidence that most of us feel this at around the 2-week mark. If so, I guess I’ll welcome and embrace the fatigue as a good sign.

  • I don’t take any potassium supplements because I think I’m getting enough in food and in my multi-vitamin, but if you think I should, I’ll pick some up. Is that one vital?

  • Regarding supplements, do we continue to take those for life or is it only to get us through the early stages of this way of eating? I was already doing B12 and the multi since I was vegan for a while but do I need to keep pumping salt and adding potassium indefinitely?

  • Last question, and I know it’s a tough one to answer: I’ve lost 4 pounds in the 2 weeks. The first time I did “Atkins” 20 years ago I lost 9 pounds in two weeks but we all know that was mostly water. This time, since I was gluten free already, I never had a “whoosh” of weight loss nor did I pee a lot or have the carb flu. The positive side of me is trying to convince myself that although it’s only 4 pounds, it’s probably four pounds of fat rather than water. Anyone care to help me keep that dream alive? :slight_smile:

Sorry for all the questions, but I love this forum and wouldn’t want to ask anywhere else.
Sue

(Donna ) #2

2 weeks are early days. If you are tired, I’d eat some fat to get you through this transition. I seem to remember when I felt like I was crashing in the early days, I’d eat a fried egg with salt and butter. Keto adaptation can take a few months.

Have you eaten this same lunch on other days and not had a problem afterward? I’d worry that there might be sugar and/or MSG in any hot dog. I don’t know what a square of coconut meat is, is it something commercially prepared? I’d worry about its carb content and added sugars, but I don’t know what a coconut meat square is, so I may be way off about my concerns.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #3

I don’t know about supplementing forever, but I do know that the need for salt continues, because we no longer retain water the way we did when we were sugar burners. Potassium, magnesium, and the B vitamins are available in organ meats and bone marrow, so if you’re making your own bone broth from real bones, there’s probably no need for commercial supplements. I believe that may be why Dr. Phinney is so big on home-made bone broth, although he does say that commercial stock cubes are okay too.

#4

Hi Donna.
Yes, I’ve had hotdog and avocado several days and never had an affect before. A square of coconut is the meat from a fresh coconut and when you enter that into tracking apps they always refer to it as a square with measurements. :slight_smile:
Sue

(VLC.MD) #5

Seems likely.

I’d get some Ketoade if possible.
Has potassium and sodium.

You could be low in fluids as well ?

Nothing wrong with adding in some carbs for a bit if it makes you feel better.

#6

Thanks, Paul… I don’t think I need to add a potassium supplement since I regularly eat avocados and bone broth. Thanks for the input!
Sue

(VLC.MD) #7

Hmmm. Maybe try more fat ! 1500 calories is pretty low. 1500 might be good if you are fat adapted. More during adaptation could help.

(CharleyD) #8

At 2 weeks in you aren’t adapted but a ketogenic diet of 1500 calories will certainly train you for it. As in, not give your body any choice but to go to fat stores for the remaining calories for basal metabolism. But adaptation just means how effecient it is or can be, and that’s trainable. It’s just early yet. Sparring just a couple rounds my first month or two in was murder. Now, I can go as long as there are carb burners on their feet.

I think though in your place I would eat some salt like 5g and up, and more food in general, with what you’ve said I’d be concerned that your metabolism is attempting to compensate for the low feeding and is trying to be conservative. A little bit more food in a shorter feeding window may do the trick?

(Richard Morris) #9

I changed the title from “some questions I want the answer to” to this one as it’s more descriptive and will show up well in searches.

The crashing fatigue may be lack of salt, may be you’re not yet adapted to fat transit into your cells but you’ve run out of any glucose reserves.

Treat the former with extra lite salt (that will also add potassium). Treat the latter with a little coconut oil - the medium chained fatty acids will take a shortcut and turn into energy quicker than other fats.

I take a fish oil because I only eat fish once a week, multi vitamin in case I missed anything, Magnesium because Australian produce is low on Mg.

As for the 4 lbs I think that will be a loss of water weight from drawing down your stored glucose. You need to get fat adapted so you have lots of energy and that will be when to expect your maximum rate of fat loss.

(Bunny) #10

I am curious and would like to ask you a question!

Are you fully keto adapted? (that’s where the Ketosis urinalysis strips no longer register a color code)

Could be low potassium, vitamin and trace mineral absorption (man made supplements or pills cannot get into your cells like organic vegetables and fruits can) from not eating enough vegetables!

Niacin might help too because it helps the body utlize energy better right down to the mitochondria of your DNA!

These are just ideas and assumptions!

#11

Thanks for the feedback, thoughts and suggestions. I’ll gladly try adding in some more calories in the way of fat but was trying to train myself to eat less - maybe I should cut myself some slack and cut back on calories AFTER I’ve been at this longer. But I sure as hell don’t want to put ON weight during the transition!

I’m very hydrated, no worries there, but I will add even MORE salt to my food and make sure I eat potassium-rich foods as much as possible.

I am still showing dark purple on my stix and I register between .2 and .3 on the breathometer, but today that keeps giving me a zero.

I agree that I may have used up all my glycogen and that my body is now starving since it hasn’t learned how to “chew the fat” yet. I really hate the thought of upping my carbs because I’m eager to get my body into fat-burning mode but maybe at Thanksgiving dinner I will add in a small amount of starcy vegetables.

Thanks for changing the title - and thanks to everyone for the replies!
Sue
P.S. Almost as soon as I wrote that I haven’t experienced the frequent urination, the frequent urination started! I’ve had to get up 3 times in the 90 minutes!

(Donna ) #12

Wait, DON’T add starchy veggies to up your carbs, please! If you are going to raise your carbs (I think one person suggested that?) do it with broccoli or cabbage, stuff that grows above the ground. (But, you probably don’t need to do that.)

Just eat more, have more fat. Supplement the salt and potassium. I know you think you’re getting plenty potassium from your foods, but you are losing EXTRA salts from the fluid you are dropping right now. You are peeing your salts out.

Drinking more water is great! But, it also dilutes your blood. You need water, salt, potassium and magnesium.

Hope you get to feeling better soon! :slight_smile:

(Mike Glasbrener) #13

Try to not restrict calories. Get plenty of fat, to satiety. It took me ~ 6 weeks to be fully fat adapted. Between 2 and 6 weeks my weight didn’t move much. Then a steady drop. What did happen between wk 2 and wk6 was a very slow methodical drop in hunger signaling. Thus I ended up lowering “calorie intake” as fat burning ramped up.

(CharleyD) #14

Yeah, think of it like this, don’t go for the smaller cut of steak on the menu yet, until the larger ones feel like too much :slight_smile:

#15

Well? Corn grows above ground, right? :wink: That’s probably what I miss the most. Corn. Corn bread. Corn chips. But I asked for advice and I will follow the advice. No starchy veggies to up my carbs, just more greens. Keep in mind I have colitis so salad is not an option, but I’m sure there will be broccoli Thursday.

Wow, eat more calories. I know it’s been discussed a hundred times and I know the science says to go ahead and eat till you’re not hungry, but it still feels SO WRONG to eat more if I can get away with less. Again, I will listen to all of you (who have a LOT more experience than I do) and trust the process. I can certainly eat whipped cream cheese till the grocery store shelves are empty, but I know we’re supposed to cool it with dairy so there again, I’m torn.

I have no idea why I almost gag when I try to eat coconut oil from the jar. I love coconuts, I love anything coconut-flavored, but the coconut oil just doesn’t go down well. I’ve even stopped putting it in my morning coffee and instead double up on the ghee. Too bad - it would be a perfect way to get more fat and kill hunger. Is there a taste difference between the refined and unrefined?
Sue

(Jacob Wagner) #16

Along the way have you eaten enough to be satisfied?

I don’t. In most accounts of becoming fat adapted people say that their energy level shoots up. People who hate exorcise get the impule to go running or jogging.

I don’t have hard facts, but my instinct is that it sounds more like carb withdrawal. Do you feel well otherwise?

I don’t know. However, many women report that they don’t loose weight until a month or two into keto. It takes some time for hormones to stabilize and the effect seems to be greater with women.

#17

Eh, yes, and no. I have a BPC for breakfast but usually by 10:30 a.m. I am starting to feel hunger and looking at the clock to see how much longer I should try to hold off eating - my goal is to always to make it till lunch. By the time I get home for lunch, I am famished. After I eat my lunch, I’m satisfied but 30-60 minutes later I feel hunger again. Not gut-wrenching like it used to be on carbs, but definitely hunger. So I have a light snack to try to kill it.

By the time I eat dinner, I’m very hungry. And usually hungry within an hour of dinner so I make a snack.

I guess to sum it up I am always just slightly hungry. I have read it’s important to stay within your macros and try to stay within the calorie limit the calculator gives you so no, I can’t say I’m ever satiated.
Sue

#18

Now I have to figure out how you quoted multi-statements in your one reply. I figured out how to show ONE quote, but need to play around to figure out how to do a multi-quote.

Actually I’m feeling very well, especially since I’ve spent most of my life NOT feeling well. Between the thyroid issues, colitis, reactive hypoglycemia, and chronic anxiety, it’s only lately that I’ve been saying “Gee, so THIS is what it feels like to feel good!” My main goal is to keep that up, but losing 10 or 20 pounds in the process would be a dream come true.
Sue

(Jacob Wagner) #19

If your goal is to loose a few pounds then that is fine.

If it’s to loose allot and get healthier then I respectfully disagree with whatever calculator you are using. A ketogenic diet is not a deprivation diet.

If you are hungry then eat some fat, if you aren’t hungry then stop eating.

Based on this information, another possibility for the wall you hit is that after 2 weeks you finally depleted your glycogen stores.

–Jacob

#20

Well hell, I’m starving right now so I’m going to go mix some whipped cream cheese with heavy cream and a splash of vanilla extract! I will try eating whenever I’m hungry for a few days and see how that goes. Thanks, all.
Sue