Could we PLEASE stop telling people that fasting is the solution to everything?


(says mix it up! Let chaos reign!) #182

(Janelle) #183

Just catching up on my reading and came across the thread regarding a 3 month water and juice fast to lose half of someone’s body weight.

S.M.H.


(Not a cow) #184

Haha, I fasted for two weeks and lost so much weight, my fallen off leg wouldn’t fit back on :wink:


#185

No. Fasting is the solution to everything.

:sunglasses:


(Doug) #186

Especially if you are fat-adapted and you kept eating fat when new to the discipline.


(Bob M) #188

I don’t think you even have to read those. Harvard always bases everything on epidemiology, which is garbage for the most part. Once I found a study was from the Harvard School of Epidemiology, I stopped reading, and that was before Gary’s information. Though Gary helped to answer WHY Harvard does what it does.

Fasting is like anything else: it’s only useful to the extent it’s useful FOR YOU. Try it. If you find it not useful, don’t do it any more.


(Doug) #189

Totally agree, Chris. “Harvard” has become almost click-bait fodder; apparently a shameful mix of pay-to-publish and outright insanity.


(Shannon E Thompson) #190

Thank you. You are right. I have always been extremely hard on myself. My health has done a complete 180 since starting keto. For example, my triglycerides went from 522 to 212 in less than 6 months! All other cholesterol related numbers fell in line as well. Proof positive that you can eat fat, and in large amounts and have healthy cholesterol levels!


(Bob M) #191

Consider this, though. Are there any institutions/organization we can trust? Any? American Heart Association – owned by food manufacturers and drug manufacturers. US dietary guidelines makers (can’t remember their name offhand), owned by vegans.

I can’t think of one organization/institution that can be trusted (and that goes for the CDC). At least in the US.


(says mix it up! Let chaos reign!) #192

Hopefully good news down here - the Dieticians Association is severing its food industry ties, and the Heart Foundation is retiring the entirely corrupt “Healthy Heart Tick.”


(Doug) #193

I hear you, Bob. Money/the profit motive is a huge influence, as is ‘tradition’ and inertia in the medical community - doctors’ privilege, egos, etc. I guess it’s really a “Let’s be careful out there,” thing, with the individual (and their own potential variability) needing to rely on their own diligence.


(Brian) #194

Actually, I had never seen it stated in an actual number, “150g”, at least not that I mentally latched onto. For someone who’s been eating keto pretty much for almost a year and a half now, I’m having a hard time thinking what I would eat that would get me up to 150g of carbs. Maybe potatoes and rice, but I really don’t eat those anymore. Even sweet potatoes, which I do have a little of on occasion, wouldn’t get me there without eating way more than I would even want.

I grew up on potatoes so it’s interesting how tastes change.


#195

Not when they’re Monetarily driven, in any way/shape/form. Be it compensation, project funding, advancement, etc. And the sad thing is, that there are so many untrustworthy things going on these days and they are so constant, it takes a lot to be able to trust anything in today’s world.


(DN) #196

Agree! Fasting is difficult for me as I workout 5 to 6 days a week and it does not mix as well as an inactive person.


(So much bacon . . . so little time . . .) #197

Context is all-important, Bri. Dr. Phinney used to speak of eating 100-125 g of carbohydrate a day as being a ketogenic diet (see his earlier presentations on Low Carb Down Under’s YouTube channel), and I believe that there are plenty of insulin-sensitive people who can eat at that level. But I notice that at Virta, Dr. Phinney is now telling his patients to stay under 50 g/day. The difference probably has to do with the population he was dealing with. A lot of his earlier research was done on highly fat-adapted endurance athletes; now he is dealing with diabetics. And I read somewhere around here that Carl and Richard really wanted to tell people to eat 0 g/day, but went up to 20 g/day so as not to scare everyone off, lol! :bacon:


(says mix it up! Let chaos reign!) #198

It’s better to listen to experts, though.

OTOH, they can’t agree either :slight_smile:


(Brian) #199

So true, Paul. Context seems to be a topic numerous people are saying more about these days (thinking specifically of Bickman and Naiman, but there are others, good people, I’m not intentionally leaving anyone out). And that’s good.

Funny about Carl & Richard and 0 g/day. :wink: I rarely pay a lot of attention to the carbs like I used to. But I find myself leaning farther towards zero carb than I thought I ever would. I can’t recall a day I actually had zero carbs lately but a few days I’ve gotten close, not so much because it was purposeful effort in that direction, it’s just what I wanted to eat.


(Robert C) #200

Fasting is a tool.

Not a very good tool if you are not on keto and fat adapted (because it is difficult and compliance becomes an issue).

But, if on keto, for the people that can handle the mental side of it, it can be a powerful tool that resolves a lot of issues at the same time.

Not trying to directly argue with the OP but, for people that are about to fall off the wagon on a long plateau - a couple of extended fasts can be a positive adventure both in self-discipline and seeing movement on the scale.

I completely agree there is some oversuggesting too early and some worshiping of fasting in some of these threads but, I wouldn’t want this (rather long and now impossible to follow) conversation to result in avoiding the suggestion where it might be good for someone.

In fact, near most people’s goal weight - when ketoers are just above their goal weight and at their Phinney weight - I think (if people still really want to get to their goal weight) that some form of fasting is the best (and just about the only) way to do it.


(Eric) #201

Robert

so true. Even IF 18/6 and OMAD can help. My weight is resistant (mostly due to some bad behaviors) and my BP remains high. OMAD is helping with both of these and the bad behaviors I’m working on.

Fasting is just a tool in the toolbox and not a “it solves everything” tool.


#202

Looking around I think fasting has become more than a tool. It is pretty much IS the keto diet now. People start keto doing fasts. The vocabulary of the WOE comes from Fung now. Few newbies talk that much about ketosis and fat adapted. It is all about windows