Coronavirus: Overweight patients with high BMI more at risk

('Jackie P') #1

Interesting article from the Daily Mail online (:no_mouth:)

A couple of interesting points ( of course, we could of told them these)!

Doctors say the immune systems of fat people are constantly ramped up as they try to protect and repair the damage inflammation causes to cells.
Using all its energy fending off inflammation means the body’s defence system has few resources left to defend against a new infection like COVID-19.

Obese people are more contagious than slim people when they have the flu, 2018 study

Stay safe and well guys :kissing_heart:

(Full Metal KETO AF) #2

Good info Jax! Hanging in with isolation as much as I can. Stay safe working Jax! :cowboy_hat_face:

(charlie3) #3

It makes sense nearly all the time everywhere that being healthy is better than being less healthy. I’m hoping that a lot of people, sitting at home, with some time to reflect on their lives, will decide may be they can live without going to bars and restaurants and may be take a walk instead of sitting down to watch sports on TV. The people working on the Dietary Guidelines should be feeling like deer in the headlights. Chronic conditions are the root of a lot of the big problems. And now, the grand daddy problem of modern times.

('Jackie P') #4

Thank you! At the moment it is like the calm before the storm! All routine stuff cancelled and staff redeployed. I’m on call.
Hopping about a bit waiting but keeping busy!

(Bunny) #5

I wonder if being ketogenically fat adapted and still fat would have an outcome on the below stated research because it does say “…a higher survival rate…” not like all the mice survived lethal doses of the flu virus injected directly through the nose; maybe the fatter mice had a weaker immune system?

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”…The team found the ketogenic diet, or keto for short, triggered the release immune system cells that produce mucus in the cell linings of the lung and trapped the virus before it became worse. The two trainees are, Ryan Molony who found that immune system activators called inflammasomes can cause harmful immune system responses in their host, and Emily Goldberg who worked in Dixit’s lab, which had shown that the ketogenic diet blocked formation of inflammasomes. Co-senior author Akiko Iwasaki, the Waldemar Von Zedtwitz Professor of Immunobiology and Molecular, Cellular and Developmental Biology, and an investigator of the Howard Hughes Medical Institute said the findings were ‘totally unexpected’. During the study, the team showed that mice infected with the flu virus that were fed the keto diet had a higher survival rate than mice on a high-carb normal diet. …” …More

From what I’m understanding there are pros and cons to this and it appears to me it is not the ketogenic diet or being fat adapted that demonstrates the resistance against a viral infection (DNA or microRNA type?) or type of diet being solely responsible for improved immune function, it is the restriction of calories or fasting that lowers testosterone (or exogenous testosterone depressing beta-blockers?) to improve immune function via re-growth or re-expansion of the thymus gland that produces more gamma-delta T cells pushed out in vast numbers from the bone marrow to the thymus gland to be matured then to mucosal lining of the lungs “…triggered the release immune system cells that produce mucus in the cell linings of the lung and trapped the virus before it became worse. …” however testosterone is also a fat burning hormone?

Having a virus trapped in your lungs (esp. a microRNA?) without any symptoms does not mean you cannot be contagious even though you may be immune?

If a new born baby’s thymus gland is as big as an orange and shrinks to the size of a pea by puberty then you will not be pushing out as many functional matured T-cells because of the sex hormone testosterone?

*Thymus, the Missing Link in Viral Protection

Corona Severity and Diet
#6

Is there some method of eating that will reduce body fat rapidly? Asking for a friend.

(Bunny) #7

Only way I know is doing squats with weights preferably but can be done without in my experience. Drop the weight lifted as you lose weight.

Burn body fat, gain muscle and your resting metabolic rate rises and burn body fat as you sleep. and upper body muscle becomes like Mighty Mouse…lol

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(Rebecca 🌸 Frankenfluffy) #8

We’re being much more careful with portion sizes at mealtimes (and I don’t snack anyway) while food is not as accessible as usual. I’m surprised that I’ve already lost weight. I wonder whether households will see a loss or a gain by the end of lockdown? Would be interesting to know!

Back to the original topic - I have to say that there are family members who I’m more worried about than others, because of their high BMI. And I’m not talking about my 70+year-old parents, who are fit as fleas (although obviously in a high-risk category due to their age).

(Utility Muffin Research Kitchen) #9

I agree with the explaination, but not with the observation :slight_smile:
Elderly people are much more at risk from corona, and they have a very high obesity rate https://www.bmj.com/content/341/bmj.c3585

63% obesity is right what I would expect if I were to select random people from the population, weighted that elderly people are favored.

As hypertension and diabetes are the most common comorbidities, it seems very likely that high insulin and metabolic syndrome is the problem, not obesity. (Both are not identical. 40% of all slim people have metabolic syndrome and high insulin.)

(Jane Srygley) #10

Hmmm… well still obese but 100 lbs less than I used to be and in ketosis, so hopefully the latter mitigates the former… and hopefully the precautions I’m taking will keep me from catching the fucking thing!!!

(Bunny) #11

O…M…G…Being ketogenically fat adapted is like being a bat?

Like seriously, that blows my dam mind!

”…The key, they found, is in the bat’s ability to limit inflammation. Bats do not react to infection with the typical inflammatory response that often leads to pathological damage. In humans, while the inflammatory response helps fight infection when properly controlled, it has also been shown to contribute to the damage caused by infectious diseases, as well as to aging and age-related diseases when it goes into overdrive.

The researchers found that the inflammation sensor that normally triggers the body’s response to fight off stress and infection, a protein called NLRP3, barely reacts in bats compared to humans and mice, even in the presence of high viral loads.

“Bats’ natural ability to dampen inflammation caused by stress and infection may be a key mechanism underlying their long lifespans and unique viral reservoir status,” said Dr Matae Ahn, first author of the study and an MD-PhD candidate of the Emerging Infectious Diseases (EID) Programme at Duke-NUS Medical School.

The researchers compared the responses of immune cells from bats, mice and humans to three different RNA viruses – influenza A virus, MERS coronavirus, and Melaka virus. The inflammation mediated by NLRP3 was significantly reduced in bats compared to mice and humans.

Digging further, they found that ‘transcriptional priming’, a key step in the process to make NLRP3 proteins, was reduced in bats compared with mice and humans. They also found unique variants of NLRP3 only present in bats that render the proteins less active in bats than in other species. These variations were observed in two very distinct species of bats – Pteropus alecto, a large fruit bat known as the Black Flying Fox, and Myotis davadii, a tiny vesper bat from China – indicating that they have been genetically conserved through evolution. Further analysis comparing 10 bat and 17 non-bat mammalian NLRP3 gene sequences confirmed that these adaptations appear to be bat-specific. …” …More

…that is super crazy strange?

Which also means even if you are ketogenically fat adapted and immune (non-symptomatic) to Covid-19; you could still be contagious like a bat and can infect others if exposed to the virus and socializing or physically interacting with other people?

Be careful folks!

And most importantly if you are ketogenically fat adapted and think you have been exposed to this virus; get tested to make sure you are not becoming a limo driver or armored personnel carrier for this virus?

Corona Severity and Diet
(Scott) #12

Probably not a fruit bat though.

(Bunny) #13

Not sure?

(Doug) #14

BatmanBacon

('Jackie P') #15

Ahhh! But not battling the same inflammation issues. :slightly_smiling_face:

Yes, very true, a cross section of society!

Vampire? It’s all the red meat :yum:

(Tammi) #17

The same article stated that a significantly greater number of intensive care cases were MALE. How will a ketogenic diet fix that?

Look, it’s too early, entirely, for conclusions to be reached regarding the underlying factors that complicate this situation. And while The Daily Trash would love to add it to its fat-shaming clickbait, I think we shouldn‘t fall for it in our rush to pat ourselves on the back for adopting a simply natural human diet.

Plenty of people died of viruses worldwide and across human history before the rise of processed foods and the explosion of obesity. Let‘s not contribute to the sad state of affairs by sharing stuff like this.

('Jackie P') #18

The ketogenic diet was not mentioned at all in this article, nor any other diet!

(Bunny) #19

…Yes Batman…those who are not ketogenically fat adapted; we have a good 12 months before the vaccine mRNA-1273 will be ready and that’s only if it works besides the other novel drugs that may detour the course of the infection like quinine and chloroquine and what ever other meds as a course of treatment:

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I just got a bunch quinine tonic water today, not a real high dose in the water but may be enough to detour it?

(Bunny) #20

Maybe Male = more testosterone = smaller thymus activity or dormancy as a hidden vestige with potential to increase strength of immunity; thymus gland is too small (size of a pea) to produce enough delta T-cells fast enough to prevent the formation of inflammasomes and not being ketogenically fat adapted or calorically restricted enough to reduce testosterone…at least that’s my theory for now?

closed #21