Concerns about high fat in Keto diet

(Rick) #1

I am 42 years of age and have been a type 2 diabetic for 4 years. My last HB1AC was 7.2. I have cut down carbs over the past few days and am already seeing a difference in my blood glucose monitoring, especially my fasting test in the morning… It’s really amazing how quickly I am seeing results.

My main concern is around the higher levels of fat this diet seems to encourage you to take, for those that have been on a keto diet for a longer period of time, what has been the effect of higher fat on your health.

(Siobhan) #2

Been keto for a year so far, my results:
No more prediabetes
CRP (test for inflammation) normal
HDL up
HbA1c and fasting insulin both 4.2 (both big markers for heart disease if high).

Are you looking for studies that show the safety of a high fat diet? I would recommend going off of the science instead of people’s personal tales - although you will likely hear good results from both.

I would recommend you watch Ivor Cummins heart disease related videos on youtube, which explains that insulin resistance is the biggest contributing factor to heart disease (something like 3/4 of people who had/have heart disease are diabetic or undiagnosed diabetic according to one study).

I also like to point out certain inuit tribes eat almost entirely fat and meat and are wonderful examples of health with extremely low rates of diabetes and heart disease.

You might also like the book “The Big Fat Surprise” which goes through how a lot of the research into “fat is bad” is super messed up and wrong.

If you have any particular concerns please let me know.

(Rick) #3

I guess my main concern comes from the many years of being educated that fat is bad, I am worried that while now people are pushing the LCHF diet in a couple of years we will be told that we have done irreparable damage by going LCHF.

Thanks for the reply I will have a look at Ivor’s videos

(Keto in Katy) #4

This is not an unreasonable question, I think. But here’s where I land on the issue.

First, ask yourself: what is the basis for this advice we have been given for decades? Is it founded in reliable research that we can trust? Look into this for yourself. You will not find that it is not. This alone calls everything into question.

Second, look to personal experience and the anecdotal evidence of many people who are reporting their own results with LCHF/keto.

I’m 55 and have been keto four years. I eat a lot of fat.

My HDL is up, Trigs are down, CRP (inflammation marker) is perfect, I weigh what I did in high school (165 lbs), I have tons of energy and feel great. If the fat is “bad” for me — whatever that means — there is absolutely nothing in my experience to indicate that. In fact, I have every imaginable reason to believe that my current diet is the optimal way for me. Furthermore, what would I do differently? Go back to eating the “recommended” ways? That way made me fatter and tired an unhealthy. No thanks.

Continue on the path and pay close attention to how you feel, as well as the other metabolic markers. Trust your body to tell you what it needs and what is working for it. I think there is an intelligence in the body that we can trust.

(A ham loving ham! - VA6KD) #5

Hi! Mid 40’s post pre-diabetic guy here. Keto for almost a year. All my blood markers have gone in a good direction. Hba1c is was in the high 6’s and is now in the high 4’s.

I think the key here is that hesthy fats are fine so long as there are low/near zero carbs. Many low carb diets still think that 100-200g of carb is low, but we strive for <20 for a keto diet.

#6

I try to stay below 10 on carbs

(John) #7

Same here, all my numbers are good, my fatty liver problem was gone in 3 months, ALT and AST down over 40% in that time. I eat 80% + fat and have never been healthier, all my markers are good.

(Anderson Herzogenrath Da Costa) #8

We have done a huge damage going low fat high carb. I was lucky to figure it out while still prediabetic.

(Teresa Driver) #9

Just wanted to share this with you. I also wanted to let you know that I achieved this without losing a significant amount of weight. I am fully fat adapted and still over 320 lbs.

(Siobhan) #10

This is why I think it is important to scrutinize the science, and make sure there arent any glaring mistakes.
If people, everyone doing it or a large portion, had scrutinized low fat science we would not be in such a mess. As far as I can see so far high fat is 1) demonstrated in healthy native populations 2) supported by clinical trials done by people such as Eric Westman at his clinic 3) Supported by in depth looks at mechanisms that contribute to disease like heart disease and stroke not to mention depression and others 4) can be replicated in numerous studies consistently

Low fat does not hold itself up to this standard. The mechanisms don’t work like they say they do, it often has barely any effect in studies or they are worse and come with elevated triglycerides and other markers for disease, there has been no replicatable study showing long term reversal of diabetes markers or atherosclerosis via low fat diet… etc.

This is why it is impirtant to look at the science, because one or two charasmatic people and some summaries from a mouse study are not “evidence”!

(Mary 🌹 ) #11

Below 20 works best for me…too
My body is noticeably feeling less inflammatory symptoms!

(Rick) #12

Thanks for the positive reply’s everyone.

(Todd Allen) #13

Considering the way fat has been demonized you would be unusual if you didn’t have concerns. Most of us here have been through this and have come to the realization that the concerns are largely unfounded at least for ourselves.

But there are potential pitfalls of a high fat diet.

One is it can increase the loss through urine of electrolytes and in particular sodium similar to what occurs when one fasts. This leads many to experience flu like symptoms after going high fat though it can be addressed by upping intake of electrolytes and going “high salt”. Another big sin according to conventional wisdom…

Another issue is that people eating a typical western diet tend to eat a poor mix of fats. Lots of refined vegetable oils with an excessive balance of omega 6’s compared to omega 3’s. The refining process strips them of their natural anti-oxidants such as vitamin E making these unstable highly unsaturated oils highly prone to oxidative damage, aggravated by using these oils for high heat cooking and frying.

Many people eating keto eat a lot of fried bacon and other fried and charred meats and fats. I think this is a sub-optimal choice with some potential to aggravate problems for those with diabetes and other metabolic health issues. But more highly saturated animal fats are less damaged by this than the vegetable oils that have been promoted as healthy solely on the basis of a slightly lower cholesterol response.

Elevated ldl is another frequent issue for those going keto. But in general hdl goes up more and triglycerides fall dramatically. The change in hdl and triglycerides correlates strongly with ldl changing to a much more healthy pattern even when ldl rises too. Unfortunately standard medical practice relies on very basic and inadequate lipid tests which fail to identify the sub-types of ldl and their particle counts. Markers of inflammation such as CRP which tend to fall on a keto diet are also correlated with a reduced risk of atherosclerosis which is the primary threat of elevated ldl.

Fat metabolism and carbohydrate metabolism each involve some unique genes. Mutations in any of those genes may lead to impairment of fat or carbohydrate metabolism. If you have diabetes it is an impairment of carbohydrate metabolism. If you have a genetic predisposition to impaired fat metabolism than going high fat has the potential to make things worse, but the odds of this appear slim. Treading carefully and watching for trouble should reduce the risk further.

(Rick) #14

Brownfat you are looking at this from exactly my angle, the idea of high fat fried foods like bacon is what had me worried. I guess I need to look at more healthy fat options like you say.

(John) #15

I think the key here is that hesthy fats are fine so long as there are low/near zero carbs.

Is this what most people follow? Salmon and avocado rather than beef and cheese? Just curious. I thought all were ok.

(KCKO, KCFO) #16

Fat is your friend. It is healthy for you. If cholesterol numbers are a concern, you might find this blog interesting:

The LDL and HDL can be manipulated by fasting and eating fats.

(A ham loving ham! - VA6KD) #17

'not sure that I follow…what’s wrong with beef and cheese?

Unhealthy fats around here are the vegetable oils, palm oil (I might be mistaken regarding palm oil, but I seem to remember there was a reason to minimize consumption of it), canola, etc. Avocado oil, beef tallow, coconut oil, olive oil, butter ghee, heavy cream and cheese, are considered healthy oils.

Edit:. There is a comparison chart kicking around here somewhere but I can’t quite put my finger on it right at the moment…still looking.

#18

Been eating this way for the better part of 10yrs. It’s hard to undo the brainwashing but the end that’s all it is. Your labs won’t lie! My triglycerides average in the low 40s! It used to be high and at one point I was in stage 2 hypertension. Now I’m 100% normal…physically at least. Don’t forget this is nothing new. People have been eating this way since the 70’s with Atkins. I’ve never heard of this way of eating actually having a negative health impact. We all know what eating the “normal”

(Keto in Katy) #19

I eat it all and feel great.

(I am a Dog (Dog's eat until they burst!)) #20

Here is another link from the “Fat Head” movie that contains the main details: saturated fat & cholesterol lies from fathead (2008)

Most of us have turned our lives around; my doctor took me off of 7 prescription medications a year ago because my labs show that I don’t need them anymore!

Trust but verify, study the science for yourself and you will be convinced.