Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #1

We’re going to hear a lot more about chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine in coming days. Please back up your comments pro and con with citations. Don’t just throw numbers and opinions at us, do your homework to back up whatever you say. Thanks.

First up: New York State commences its trial.

“America’s FDA, and National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases Director Dr. Anthony Fauci, are dragging their feet on approving a drug that provides very strong positive effect on COVID19.”

According to the following. Why? What the heck is Fauci up to anyway?

“The media reflexively struck back. They first accused Trump of lying about the drugs’ potential value. Now that it’s become clear that Trump was accurate, the media have a new tactic, which is to present chloroquine as a deadly drug that will kill more than it cures. For the media, it’s never about the actual issue; it’s always about ‘getting’ Trump.”

According to the following. Why? What’s their agenda?

It is not my intention with this topic to get explicitly political, but I’m afraid that we can not avoid the intrusion of political activism where it is obviously getting in the way of dealing with something that is being touted as the biggest threat to civilization since… WW2, The Great Depression, the Black Death, Ghengis Khan?

Anyway, have at it and if you’re expressing your own unsupported opinions, just say so.

(Ethan) #2

I’m all for fast-tracking things if there is hope. Monitor and see. If it works well, expand to larger group. If it doesn’t work, stop

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #3

What the heck is Fauci up to?

(Bunny) #4

A little recap on what I wrote before in other posts with a few annotations:

If our ingenious peeps down at NIH develop a vaccine (mRNA-1273) fast enough you may not have to worry about it because you will be immune to it in addition to the ketogenic diet protecting your immune system and lungs that you will be able to eat the virus for dinner.

I mean they were feeding the ketogenically fat adapted mice lethal doses of viruses through their nose and they were bulletproof proof against it. Thus Gamma Delta (γδ) in the lower mucosal barrier of the lower lung sacks provide a protective barrier between the host and virus?

Just feeding the mice ketones did no good they just died, it was the fact they were ketogenically fat adapted over a period of time

Being ketogenically fat adapted is supposed to improve immune (anti-bodies ect.) function but how?

I’m sitting here wondering if the thymus gland gets bigger because of ketogenic fat adaption as result of lowered testosterone[6], that’s where T-cells are matured after leaving the bone marrow[1].

If I’m correct then a person who is fat adapted irregardless of age would have the thymus gland of a 12 (annotated) year old (or maybe even a baby?) if testosterone is lowered or blocked from something like fasting or calorie restriction[6]?


[1] “…Lymphoid progenitors which have developed from hematopoietic stem cells in the bone marrow migrate to the thymus to complete their antigen-independent maturation into functional T cells. In the thymus, T cells develop their specific T cell markers, including TCR, CD3, CD4 or CD8, and CD2. …” …More

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[2] “…A Monash University researcher has discovered how to rewind the body’s immune system back to its youth and re-educate it. Their technique actually re-grows the Thymus gland - the human organ that produces a vital part of the immune system called ‘T Cells’ - so our bodies can prevent and fight off disease. In children, the thymus is about the size of an orange. But once our immune system is set up properly around puberty, the Thymus shuts down and shrinks to the size of a pea. The Melbourne team has discovered how to stimulate the Thymus gland so it grows back to full size and starts producing T-Cells again. They’ve proved it works in mice, and now trials are underway in cancer patients undergoing bone marrow patients. …” …More

[3] “…The sex hormones that flood the body at puberty actually cause the thymus to shrink, which gave Richard his great idea. If he could block these hormones he should be able to get the thymus to grow back and again start pumping out the large number of T cells it once did. …” …More

[4] “…A testosterone-blocker is injected under his skin. The drug will stay in his system for several months and hopefully allow his thymus to grow and produce more T cells so he can get through his low immunity period. …” …More

[5] “…How I Increased My Testosterone by 290% without hormone therapy or sport supplementation. …” …More

[6] ”…Calorie restriction lowers testosterone, except during healthy weight loss. …” …More

[7] Putting mice on a keto diet: Our immune responses to infections are influenced by several extrinsic factors, including weather, social interactions, and diet. Here, Goldberg et al. report that feeding mice a high-fat, low-carbohydrate ketogenic diet confers protection in the context of lethal influenza infection. By characterizing the immune response in the lungs, the authors identified that ketogenic diet promoted the expansion of γδ T cells in the lung. Using mice lacking γδ T cells, the authors have established the functional importance of these cells in conferring protection. Their findings suggest that γδ T cells improve barrier function in the lungs by modifying differentiation and function of the airway epithelial cells. Abstract: Influenza A virus (IAV) infection–associated morbidity and mortality are a key global health care concern, necessitating the identification of new therapies capable of reducing the severity of IAV infections. In this study, we show that the consumption of a low-carbohydrate, high-fat ketogenic diet (KD) protects mice from lethal IAV infection and disease. KD feeding resulted in an expansion of γδ T cells in the lung that improved barrier functions, thereby enhancing antiviral resistance. Expansion of these protective γδ T cells required metabolic adaptation to a ketogenic diet because neither feeding mice a high-fat, high-carbohydrate diet nor providing chemical ketone body substrate that bypasses hepatic ketogenesis protected against infection. Therefore, KD-mediated immune-metabolic integration represents a viable avenue toward preventing or alleviating influenza disease. …” …More

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[8]”…It has a clever disguise: Sugars dot the outside of the spike, just like sugars dot the outside of regular human cells, said David Veesler, a structural virologist at the University of Washington who led a team that visualized the SARS-CoV-2 spike and published a March 19 paper on its architecture. This carbohydrate camouflage makes the virus more difficult for the human immune system to recognize. …More

[9] “…There’s also quinine in Tonic Water, which is available just about anywhere at any grocery or liquor…” …More

[10] “…The modern drug is a synthetic form of quinine, which is found in the bark of the Cinchona plant. The plant was taken as an herbal remedy by indigenous Peruvians four centuries ago…” …More

[11] Chloroquine and Quinine are different drugs, the former is now the drug of choice to treat malaria and Quinine, used since 1820, is still used to treat patients with Chloroquine-resistant falciparum malaria. Chloroquine is inexpensive and widely available, used since 1945 to treat a wide variety of illness such as malaria, amoebiasis, HIV, and autoimmune diseases without significant detrimental side effects…” …More

[12] “…Plasmodium falciparum chloroquine resistance is a major cause of worldwide increases in malaria mortality and morbidity. …Chloroquine resistance (CQR) was first reported in Southeast Asia and South America and has now spread to the vast majority of malaria -endemic countries…” …More

[13] “…Areas: Chloroquine - resistant P. falciparum first developed independently in three to four areas in Southeast Asia, Oceania, and South America in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Since then, chloroquine resistance has spread to nearly all areas of the world where falciparum malaria is transmitted. …” …More

[14] Kaiser Permanente launches first coronavirus vaccine trial

*Thymus, the Missing Link in Viral Protection

"Know it all Vegetarians" room mates are really critical! Needing to get on Keto again. How do you cope?
Possible relationship between covid-19 and blood sugar
(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #5

While waiting for the definitive results of testing on chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine I’m currently dosing myself daily with about 1.5 liter of tonic water and 75mg of zinc (25mg zinc picolinate and 50mg of zinc citrate). My hypothesis is that a little quinine and a lot of zinc will synergize as prophylactic. I suspect we’re going to find out fairly soon that chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, maybe in conjunction with azithromycin, are effective treatments. If so, I’m all in favour of using what’s available on the sick first, before making it available generally as preventive.

Correlation of fever and sugar?

Couple liters of tonic water a day it is until we figure out WTF is gonna happen!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #7

I think a wee dram of gin now and again might also help - to keep the mouth and palate sanitized. With or without the tonic water. :thinking:


NPR has reported on the man who died after taking it. His wife is still hospitalized.

According to my dr. No one over 60 is supposed to take chloroquine.

I have no intention of taking medical advice from an x tv celebrity

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #9

The people consumed an aquarium tank cleaning compound. NOT A MEDICATION.


The people drank fish tank cleaner. It’s hard to believe anything in the U.S. media right now due to bias. The drug combination has shown some promise which would be very good. This is a nasty virus.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #11

The drugs to be tested are the antiviral drug remdesivir; a combination of two HIV drugs, lopinavir and ritonavir; lopinavir and ritonavir plus interferon beta; and the antimalarial drug chloroquine. All show some evidence of effectiveness against the SARS-CoV 2 virus, which causes Covid-19, either in vitro and/or animal studies.

…Henao-Restrepo said chloroquine — which is cheap and used regularly around the world — will be tested two ways. Some countries will test chloroquine against the standard of care while others will test hydroxychloroquine, a related drug.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #12

(KCKO, KCFO) #13

Because it has not be approved by the FDA. Contrary to the guy’s tweet. The FDA came out quickly saying he was incorrect. We need a safe drug to use and we need it quickly. They did that with the drug for ebola, hopefully they can do it again.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #14

The FDA has approved chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine for ‘compassionate use’ at the individual doctor’s discretion. Both chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine have been approved by the FDA for many decades for use to treat and cure malaria, arthritis, lupus and HIV. These drugs are very well understood, including their contraindications and potential side effects. Doctors are free to prescribe both ‘off label’ at their discretion and many are doing so because they are quickly learning that they work. My bet is that by the time the FDA gets around to formal approval, COVID-19 will be a foul memory.

Those people consumed an industrial cleaning compound - NOT a medication. The FDA is never going to approve any industrial cleaning compound for human consumption. What don’t you understand?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #15

Well, well… We hear from Dr Fauci and quess what? He would prescribe hydroxychloroquine and/or chloroquine for his patients. If he actually had any, which he doesn’t. Still, when the rubber hits the pavement - you do what works.

CHRIS STIGALL: If you’re a doctor listening to me right now and a patient with coronavirus feels like they want to try [Chloroquine] and you’re their doctor, you’re not Anthony Fauci the guy running the coronavirus task force, would you say ‘alright, we’ll give it a whirl’?

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI: Yeah, of course, particularly if people have no other option. You want to give them hope. In fact, for physicians in this country, these drugs are approved drugs for other reasons. They’re anti-malaria drugs and they’re drugs against certain autoimmune diseases, like lupus. Physicians throughout the country can prescribe that in an off-label way. Which means they can write it for something it was not originally approved for. People do that all the time, and it really is an individual choice between the physician and his or her patient as to whether or not they want to do that.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #16

Meanwhile in Nevada:


Doctors in my state have been stockpiling this combination for their families. If this drug does work I wonder if supply issues will end up causing people the opportunity to live or die.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #18

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #19

Confirmation of New York’s clinical trials.

(Utility Muffin Research Kitchen) #20

The hydroxychloroquine study is observational twaddle, unfortunately.
Christian Drosten, the leading COVID-19 expert in Germany, says the fatal flaw is that they measured virus concentration in the throat and not in the lungs. Apparently the virus concentration in the throat goes down after a week independent of the severity of the symptoms. Bottom line, it’s wasted effort because they measured the wrong thing.

He also says that the patient groups were different ages and hospital (the control group was younger and brought in from another hospital), and the results would look as if the one group was simply brought in and diagnosed a bit later, which would explain the difference in viral load. According to Drosten, a placebo might have achieved exactly the same results. He also said that hydroxychloroquine wasn’t very efficient when they tested it against SARS-1, less efficient than other antiviral drugs.

All this doesn’t mean that hydroxychloroquine is useless. But it does mean that we simply don’t gain any knowledge from this study, and we need more studies. There are many other antiviral medications that are used/researched against Ebola or AIDS, for example.

I’m very concerned if any government makes hasty claims about the efficiency of medications. We had almost 20.000 new infections in the US yesterday. At an exponential growth of 30% per day that projects to 3 million infections in 2 weeks. Would anyone really want to promote anything but extreme caution, and everything that is possible to stop the virus? Wouldn’t you want to err on the side of safety?