Chest tightness when deep into ketosis

keto
newbies
science
(Moe Shrifeh) #1

Hello, I’m following a ketogenic diet for mental health benefits. The benefits don’t appear unless I’m deep into ketosis like when i have 3 - 3.5+ mmol/L of ketones, but once I’m there i get chest tightness/ shortness of breath or what some would call it air hunger, and it’s accompanied by a bit of a burning feeling from my stomach up to the esophagus sometimes resulting in an acidic taste in my mouth. When that happens my blood pressure rises along with my heart rate. I know this sounds like GERD but the the things is this symptom doesn’t occur unless as i said I’m deep into ketosis. Once i do something that kicks me out of ketosis like eating a higher protein to fat ratio, the symptoms disappear…? I’ve tried upping my electrolytes intake, avoiding histamines (doing carnivore), drinking more water etc to no avail… it’s such a bummer to get this symptom because ketosis has a huge effect on my autism / mental illness and it’s the only this that’s worked for me that made me feel like a normal human being…

can somebody let me know if they’ve experienced anything similar or help me figure out the issue please?
Thank you.

(Bob M) #2

Have you tried exogenous ketones? Those might get you where you want, without the symptoms.

WARNING: you’d have to do some research on the brand of exogenous ketones. Ketones can basically be “right” or “left” handed, and the meters only read one.

As for your current issue, I don’t have any ideas.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #3

Have you checked out the forum topics dealing with this subject? Our search function actually works pretty well; it’s why the Keto Dudes founded this site and chose to run it with the Discourse software; they were tired of the intentionally poor search capacities of social media sites.

Anyway, do a search on “air hunger,” and I’m sure something useful will come up.

(Edith) #4

What’s your definition of increasing electrolytes? Do you know about how much sodium you are actually taking in?

(Moe Shrifeh) #6

Yup I’m getting 4000-5000mg sodium, 2500-3500mg potassium and 400mg magnesium.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #7

Daily sodium intake in the range of 4-6 g/day has been shown to be optimal. Keeping sodium in this range usually also properly regulates calcium, magnesium, and potassium.

(Edith) #8

Well… Electrolytes are frequently a cause of at least some of your symptoms, but it seems you are right on it.

Hummmm, my other go to is the possibility of oxalate dumping. By being very close to carnivore you have removed oxalate containing foods from your diet. When that happens your body dumps the oxalate crystals it has stored up over the years. Some of the symptoms you mentioned fit that as well.

We’ve had many discussions on this forum about oxalates and oxalate dumping. You may want to research the conversations here and look at other resources online and see if it may pertain to you.

After that I’m stumped. :thinking:

(Moe Shrifeh) #9

I’ll try to up the sodium to that range and see but i worry sometimes of that amount being too much for me because i thought getting a lot of sodium would result in my body excreting the excess along with potassium?

(Moe Shrifeh) #10

Unfortunately VirginiaEdie, i experience the same symptom wether on Keto or Carnivore so definitely not an oxalate issue since i eat spinach, nuts and peanut butter most of the time on keto …:persevere:

(Robin) #11

I also take at least double that amount of magnesium every day. Powdered in a glass of salted.

#12

So here me out, since it seems at face value that having a higher blood ketone levels produces all this which is weird, and also, 3-3.5 isn’t really high, better than I got minus fasting, but still not high, this is what I would do if I were you.

Get yourself some Exogenous Ketones as @ctviggen said, once you have them in hand, up your carbs to the point where you ketones lower OR up them to normal low carb (not keto) levels so you KNOW you’re out, but not enough so you’ve totally reloaded the liver and muscles and spilling over. Once you do that, ketones are down, no negative symptoms, THEN slam some exogenous ketones. Give is a bit, couple hours later, have more. Do that for a day or two, have 3 servings in a day, what that will do is prove/debunk that the ketone levels alone are doing that to you. If it happens with more carbs in your system than for whatever the hell reason, it’s the ketones, which can’t be it.

BUT, if that doesn’t happen, then it’s not the ketones, and it’s something else to do with the way you’re doing your diet.

You’re not kicking yourself out from high protein, that myth is long debunked. Gluconeogenesis is demand driven, not supply.

It’s hard when you’re using keto for it’s intended purpose because most stuff you pull up in searching will be in the context of people using it for fat loss, inflammation reduction, AI issues etc, and those of us that do things like ketone testing or are even aware of it, are the minority even in Keto circles. Not on this forum, but in the rest of the planet doesn’t do it because outside of using keto as a medical intervention, measuring them is a waste of time and money, I can definitely say in many years of eating this way, your results that seemingly linking to the ketone level is a first. Especially at those levels, something’s off. Finding it may be tricky.

Have you ever had those same symptoms but in another context when not eating Keto? Have you added food(s) that wasn’t part of your diet prior, that are a regular one when you’re eating keto?

(Edith) #13

Okay, another thought. :laughing: I’m guessing when you are in deep ketosis, you are eating very high fat. Could you be having issues with your gallbladder because your body is just not used to eating all the fat necessary for you to be in deep ketosis?

Maybe you need to ramp yourself up to the higher levels over a longer period of time?

Edit: Adding one more thought. Again, if being is deep ketosis is meaning higher fat, maybe you ARE experiencing GERD and need to be increasing your stomach acid?

(KM) #14

Acid reflux and air hunger are associated symptoms. I would agree with @VirginiaEdie that you could be having a digestive issue that is associated with problems relating to higher fat digestion, whether that’s gall bladder, or possibly weak or insufficient stomach acid. One home remedy for acid indigestion, oddly, can be taking vinegar, triggering the lower esophageal sphincter to close. Certainly easy enough to try!

(Moe Shrifeh) #15

I also tried increasing the magnesium that didn’t help either…

(Moe Shrifeh) #16

I am actually using Keto as a medical intervention for autism and psychiatric illnesses and i find it extremely effective in symptom reduction when i am in deep ketosis so that’s why i care about ketone reading.
Yes, usually the food i eat on the diet aren’t the type of food I’d eat on a regular diet like all the meat, oils, and high fat food.
What’s confusing me is that the symptoms I’m complaining about only appear in the mentioned level of ketosis. Like I could eat like that most of the time but if I’m not in ketosis i have no symptoms. Also the diet would not be effective in managing my illnesses then.
I’m thinking that ketosis itself is stressful on my body and the symptoms are a stress response?

(Moe Shrifeh) #17

Yes that makes sense since there is a burning sensation in stomach and chest and an acidic taste in my mouth so it does sound like classic GERD symptoms.
Do you mean though that this could be an adjustment period? Because sometimes symptoms become so severe that i feel like I’m having an asthma attack (not asthmatic). When that happens i eat a banana to kick myself out of Keto completely and that’s when symptoms disappear. So in this case it’s impossible to adjust or handle the symptoms when they’re that severe.
Also I’ve heard drinking ACV can help in increasing stomach acid but I’ve tried that and it didn’t help… what are other ways to do that?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #18

No, getting the right amount of sodium helps the body retain potassium. If you get headachy and feel light headed if you stand suddenly, get more salt. If you start having diarrhoea, cut back on the salt. In all cases, drink to thirst. Too much water can disrupt your electrolytes. (We don’t require the vast daily amount of liquid the sport drink manufacturers would like to sell us.)

(KM) #19

Banana is a great stomach acid neutralizer. It’s possible you’ve got your causality backward - that your symptoms are eased by the banana itself, not the lack of ketosis it causes.

And on the flip side, that it’s something you eat or eat more of (or something protective you don’t eat) when focusing on ketone production that’s producing the symptoms, not the ketones themselves.

(Example, I used to drink coffee that was about half milk. When I started on keto, I cut the milk out. I started getting nausea and high stomach acid in the morning. But it wasn’t the ketosis making me nauseous, it was that the milk had been protective, it was the black coffee making me nauseous. I switched to cream, and the symptom was gone.)

(Moe Shrifeh) #21

Hmm…so i need to figure out an alternative keto food that neutralises stomach acid?

#22

I know, I read that, that’s why I recommended what I did. You need the higher ketone levels, but you’re going to have to figure out whether it’s (Actually) the ketones levels doing this, or not. Doing what I said would give you high ketone levels, without being in diet induced ketosis. That right there will rule out ketone levels in blood doing it, vs how you do keto.

That one is heavily debated. One side will tell you that Keto is a stress, and a survival thing and your body is only in a state of ketosis to keep you alive because, the other side will say keto is how we would have eaten prior to modern day diets. Both side of that are valid. It’s true keto makes us tap into storage, and we have a storage mechanism and a way to automatically access it for a reason, which is clearly survival. On the other side of that, out body will preferentially burn carbs when they’re available over the stores. Soooooooo. The truth is usally somewhere in the middle. That’s why we have to tailor things to what works for us.