Chest tightness when deep into ketosis

keto
newbies
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(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #23

Yours might be a case in which it would be worthwhile taking ketone supplements.

But don’t worry about your ketone levels, as long as you are keeping your carb intake low. Circulating β-hydroxybutyrate levels represent the gap between production and consumption; there is no way to measure production directly. The main benefit of having measurable ketones is the proof that our insulin is low enough for our metabolism to be relying on fatty acids, rather than glucose.

As far as oils go, you might want to avoid oils in favour of animal fats: butter, lard, tallow, and bacon grease. The reason is that they are mostly saturated and mono-unsaturated fats, and what polyunsaturated fats are ones that our systems have evolved to use. The high polyunsaturated fat content of the industrial seed oils is made up of fatty acids that are pretty much unknown in our evolutionary history, and they have unpredictable effects in the body, such as when they are taken into our cell membranes, for instance.

Moreover, the phytosterol content of the seed oils is another problem in the the body. Our body can easily make cholesterol and ketones from animal fats, but has trouble with the polyunsaturates from seed oils. Fortunately, the brain makes its own cholesterol from the ketones that make it across the blood-brain barrier (fatty acids are too large to cross), which is another reason to eat fats that can feed the liver’s ketone-making machinery. (Ketones are intermediate products in the process of fatty-acid metabolism.)

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #24

Not if you’re having a problem with acid reflux. It seems paradoxical, but the oesophageal sphincter needs more stomach acid, not less, in order to help it stay closed. Antacids and proton-pump inhibitors are exactly the wrong treatment.

As for your comment about ketosis being stressful on the body, I don’t think that’s true. Human beings are practically unique among mammals, in that we enter ketosis readily, whereas other mammals only enter ketosis during the late stages of starving to death. An insulin level low enough to deal with the effects of hyperinsulinaemia/insulin-resistance naturally puts us into ketosis. The only time we wouldn’t want to be in ketosis is when we are trying to fatten up for the winter by eating fall berries.

Being in ketosis restores the body’s natural defences against oxidation (which are deactivated by elevated serum insulin) and helps lower systemic inflammation (caused by elevated serum insulin). A diet low in polyunsaturated fats also helps lower systemic inflammation (in other words avoid the industrial seed oils). Chronic systemic inflammation is a great stressor on the body.

As far as oils are concerned, olive oil only entered the Western diet about four centuries ago. To the ancient Greeks and Romans, it was a lamp fuel and a cosmetic, not a foodstuff. It was the mediaeval Persians and Arabs in the Middle East who first started using olive oil in food, and the practice spread to Europe from there.

(Edith) #25

If the symptoms go away as soon as you eat the banana, I would definitely think stomach, because eating a banana would not suddenly get rid of your ketones.

You mentioned oils in a previous post. What types of oils are you using?

(KM) #26

Can you pinpoint foods that seem to trigger your episodes?

(Moe Shrifeh) #27

On Keto i use either olive oil or coconut oil, and sometimes beef fat. No butter or ghee because i avoid dairy all together (gives me brain fog and mood issues). And on carnivore either beef fat or tallow…
Could the cooking method be affecting my digestion and is give me issues? I mostly stir fry my foods and maybe once in while I’ll oven-bake something…

(Moe Shrifeh) #28

Not really sure which food exactly is giving me issues but here’s my food list,

-Meat: ground lamb, steak, chicken breast or thighs
-Vegetables: spinach, mushrooms, avocados, romaine lettuce, broccoli, watercress, bell peppers, cucumbers, tomatoes and lemons.
-Oils and fat: olives, peanut butter, olive oil, coconut oil, and beef fat.
-Nuts and seeds: Almonds, walnuts, sunflower seeds and pumpkin seeds…

I need to track how i feel after each meal and see what could be the culprit

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #29

You’ll get a clearer idea of what the problem foods are if you go on a strict beef and water elimination diet. After your system has had a few weeks to clear, then you can add foods back, slowly and one by one. If the food produces no symptoms after two or three weeks, then you can add another food back, and so on. It’s time-consuming, but the the only way to really determine the source of your problems.

(Robin) #30

When in doubt, cut back on veggies…. Or cut them out completely then evaluate.

#31

Have you tried testing to see if you have h pylori?

(Edith) #32

Another hummm :thinking:… While some people can take MCT oil and be fine, there have been posts on the forum with people who have trouble with MCT oil. While coconut oil isn’t pure MCT, it does contain them. Could it be the coconut oil?

I read a research paper about how high Omega 3 fish oil appeared to improve inflammation, so I started supplementing with it to see if it helped some muscle issues I was having. Well, it did NOT agree with my digestive system. It irritated my stomach and intestines. If I recall, it also gave me pretty bad reflux. So, maybe you are having something similar with the coconut oil?

I would definitely track and keep a diary of foods and symptoms. Maybe even do an elimination diet like suggested above, if you can’t easily narrow it down.

(Edith) #33

Hi @Moe_Shrifeh, got any updates? I would love to hear if you have figured anything out.

(Moe Shrifeh) #34

Hello VirginiaEdie, Thank you for checking.

Unfortunately, I’m still trying to figure out the issue. Rightnow I’m doing a low-histamine keto again to see if it helps, because after checking many histamine-food lists online i noticed that i was still consuming some trigger foods/spices then. Also I’ve been noticing the symptoms are way stronger on days when I consume histamine-rich foods like avocados, spinach, tomatoes, olives, lemons and fermented/marinated foods etc…sometimes i have all of the mentioned foods on the same day like if i had a steak with salad, and i do really notice a disastrous worsening of the symptoms on those days. The chest tightness/shortness of breath would get so bad that i’d almost be suffocating.
So i’m giving the diet another shot right now despite it being extremely restrictive to see if it will help. I would’ve started taking anti-histamines but i currently can’t for some personal reasons…

(Robin) #35

Thanks for the update. Sounds like your detective work may pay off. And you’re right… being restrictive may be the price of admission for feeling good.

Keep in mind… after you are totally settled down and without those symptoms for a few months, you can try adding one item back in and reassessing. And continue adding in ever so slowly. You should eventually find your happy place.

(Edith) #36

Interesting about the histamine. I have developed histamine trouble as I’ve gotten older (it seems to be more common in middle-aged woman, but anyone can have histamine intolerance if they overwhelm their body) and similarly, I was also eating quite a bit of histamine containing food on keto. Among other things, I would get something called air hunger, the feeling that I could never get a deep enough breath. My histamine reaction would also cause heart palpitations. Most of those symptoms disappeared once I cut back on most of the histamine containing foods.

Since then, I have found for me that aged meats, old meat (didn’t freeze or cook it soon enough), and seafood are the worst triggers. I also avoid spinach and other foods on your list because they tend to also be high in oxalates. Spinach is one of the highest oxalate containing foods, so it is a double whammy.

You could possibly look into diamine oxidase supplements. Diamine oxidase is the main enzyme our bodies use to breakdown histamine. Some people have luck with it. It is a little on the pricey side. I, myself, briefly tried it but wasn’t disciplined enough to remember to take it 15-20 minutes before eating. It might help.

(Moe Shrifeh) #37

Thank you @robintemplin. Yes, I’ve read that i can gradually add some items back in after an elimination period of 6 months (too long and i love my avocados! :persevere:).
I wish I could’ve done those dietary changes under the supervision of a professional, but i live in the middle east and nutritionists here aren’t well informed on such topics aside from the very obvious allergies/intolerances (gluten, dairy etc)
So I guess i’ll have to monitor myself and see what happens hopefully it does pay off!

(Moe Shrifeh) #38

May i ask how long after you’ve eliminated Histamines that you started seeing improvements?

Thank you for the recommendation i will look into the supplement. :+1:t3:

(Edith) #39

When I initially realized some of my trouble could be histamine related, the symptoms went away pretty quick if I recall correctly. It has been several years. I cut way back on histamine containing foods, put protocols into place with freezing meat and leftovers and the reactions went away. I still have troubles once in a while if I over do it. It’s usually due to an enjoyable afternoon of charcuterie. Lol.

Now, with that being said, when I did my seven month carnivore trial, my histamine intolerance got really bad by the end. It got to the point where I couldn’t eat any beef without my body violently reacting with itching and digestive problems. If you do a search on histamine and my name you can find all the posts I’ve made over the years about histamine.

I believe my histamine intolerance got so bad during the trial because I needed more vitamin C. Vitamin C is used in the synthesis of diamine oxidase (DAO). I was also dumping oxalates on and off during my trial, sometimes quite uncomfortably, and that may have contributed to the histamine trouble. When I went off carnivore and reintroduced some vitamin C foods, I stopped reacting to beef. That recovery took several weeks.