Cheating-not cheating


(adrianaros) #1

What happens if I eat something that it’s not keto friendly at all, but it still contains less than 20g of carbs?
I’m talking about a super sugary caramel ice cream, but a Very Tiny one that contains 14 g of carbs per serving.

Will it Kick me out of ketosis? Will I lose my fat adaptation?
I know it’s not healthy at all, but it would be a once-in-a-while Kind of thing


(Allie) #2

If you’re fat adapted then a one off won’t take that away, but 14g of sugar will cause an insulin response which will temporarily mess with fat burning. If you’re in the early stages or in any doubt about whether you’re adapted or not, best to avoid.


(adrianaros) #3

Thank you Allie


(less is more, more or less) #4

I second what @Shortstuff wrote.

However, what is your ultimate goal?


(adrianaros) #5

It’s Weight loss


(Full Metal KETO AF) #6

Some people on the forum seem to like Halo Top ice cream, lower in carbs. As @Shortstuff and @Screenack recommend I follow suit. The sweet foods will work against you early on especially if you had a “Sweets” problem before keto. Eating sweets now will keep that sweet tooth alive and craving more. Give yourself time just eating healthy vegetables, meats and eggs with a bit of dairy if you do that. Your sweet cravings will go away and my money is on you not finding them as desirable or palatable if you give them a break for a few months. I didn’t do keto treats or nuts until after two months in as many advise against it. It worked great for me. I have had a few keto treats in the following months and occasionally consume nuts now and I don’t have the same compulsive behaviors towards these foods anymore. And real sugar stuff tastes sickeningly sweet and kind of gross. :cowboy_hat_face:


(adrianaros) #7

I’ve been keto for almost 5 months now so I thank I will give it a try, just once


(less is more, more or less) #8

Keto or Low-carb is fundamentally about healthy eating. Weight loss is a desirable artifact of healthy eating, especially in our current food pyramid directed obesity epidemic. If you stick with low-carb eating, you can easily maintain your weight-loss. (Then again, some people lose fat with minimal weight loss, entirely possible and desirable as well.) How one gets or yo-yos back to obesity is another matter. This isn’t once-and-done, however.

The standard American diet eagerly awaits backsliders. :wink:

Otherwise, @David_Stilley cuts to the chase on the underpinnings of low-carb.


#9

First, it’s possible to be perfectly keto and not eat what a lot of people here consider “healthy food.” I’m not necessarily recommending it, but all you need to do to be keto is to eat a very low carb diet.

Second, for a lot of people it is fundamentally about losing weight and there’s no reason it shouldn’t be. In fact this is probably true for the vast majority of people who chose to eat this way. I just don’t think we see many of them on this forum or the forums most people here follow, because many people here are more focused on diabetes or other health issues since that’s @carl and @richard’s focus.

Going low-carb/keto is our way of losing weight, because it’s the healthiest and easiest way to do it. Maybe we get some other health benefits along the way; maybe we don’t need other health benefits, but just get to lose a bunch of weight that we didn’t want or need.


(Full Metal KETO AF) #10

I know you’re position on this is strong, but I would ask you to consider that being excessive in weight doesn’t happen without sugar / insulin reactions getting more and more out of whack. You don’t even need to be overweight to have this happen but carbs and insulin response to them is what causes fat. I don’t think there are many who are overweight and have healthy metabolisms, if any. :slightly_frowning_face:


(Jane) #11

So true for me. I was never diagnosed as diabetic but I couldn’t lose weight on a 1200 cal/day diet so I know I was insulin resistant and did NOT have a healthy metabolism.

I also thought the age spots and sore joints and lack of energy were part of getting old and inevitable. I had no idea my SAD diet was the root cause!

I came for the weight loss and stayed for the health benefits.


#12

There’s no denying that they’re related; people do put on weight by eating too much food that pushes their insulin response. But most people who want to lose 20 or 30 lbs. probably don’t have seriously messed up metabolisms. Or messed up at all. Yes, the insulin mechanism (and eating too much, especially of the wrong food) caused them to put on weight. But it may be fairly straightforward for people to take it off again and they may have zero markers for CVD or metabolic syndrome. There are also plenty of people who have much more weight to lose (like me) who have no markers for any of these conditions.

I’m fat. I understand the hormonal mechanism that caused it and what will fix it, but over the last six years my doctor (a strong low-carb advocate who recently left general practice to run a metabolic clinic) has run annual lipid and metabolic panels and has never been concerned with my test results. Other than being hopelessly unfit due to my couch potato ways and overweight, I’m perfectly healthy. I don’t think I’m some sort of bizarre anomaly; I just don’t think tons of people like me find their way to forums like this.


(Jane) #13

Actually I think there are more here just to lose weight than you think and are basically healthy.

And they have the hardest time staying motivated when they stall or keto doesn’t work like magic because they don’t see any other improvements. And many times give up and leave.

I would have put myself in that category when I arrived here with an obese BMI and at age 58 on no meds whatsoever. My annual physicals are boring. All my bloodwork shows I was healthy before (and now after) keto.


(Carl Keller) #14

Experimenting can be good. I found that after six months, a bite and a half of sugary cake left me with a funny after taste, kind of like the sweetness in a diet drink (that I’m not fond of).

At four months I had some honey baked ham and I wiped most of the honey glaze off, but the sweetness permeated the meat a lot. After a half an hour, my stomach was rumbling complaints. I’m pretty sure my gut microbiome had learned to exist without sugar and putting it back in there caused a gastrointestinal ruckus… Fortunately it was over in an hour and was never really painful.


(less is more, more or less) #15

I recommend Dr. Westman’s page 4. Specifically. Both for effective and healthy eating.

FIne by me.

That’s why I started low-carb and have been for almost two years. I’ve come to learn; however, low-carb is far more than weight loss, notably as my other health factors improved without my expecting that to happen. At my age, that’s a big deal. If you’re merely focused on losing weight, however, you’ll miss all these other benefits and may relapse into poor eating when you achieve your “goal” weight.


#16

Yeah, I agree that there are other benefits and I think it’s great that we encourage people to discover them along the way when they’ve only come for the weight loss.

But when those people stall, it’s not helpful to tell them that “keto isn’t a diet/isn’t about weight loss/is primarily about something else.” First, that isn’t true; second, it sounds like we’re telling people their goals are wrong or they shouldn’t do keto if their goals are only weight loss; and third, doesn’t address their concerns and questions.

As Janie said:

Let’s try to help people out to meet their stated goals and stay motivated long enough to stick around.


(less is more, more or less) #17

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this, both on its truthfulness and whether it is motivational or not. Besides, this is a forum, not a monologue. I’m a fan of a diversity of ideas.


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #18

Dr. Lustig quotes figures in his fructose lecture, to the effect that about 80% of the obese are also metabolically damaged, the remaining 20% are fat but healthy The medical term for such people is MHO, “metabolically healthy obese.” The inverse of this is the 40% of normal-weight people who have metabolic disease. Because they are loaded with visceral fat that mostly doesn’t show, the medical term for them is TOFI, “thin on the outside, fat on the inside.”


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #19

Ah, but it is true, and people need to know that. And if their goals are wrong, they need to know that, too. If your goal is weight loss, keto may not help you. If your goal is fat loss, it can certainly help, if you go about things the right way. People need to be told this, even if it’s not what they want to hear, or they are unlikely to be successful on keto.

A well-formulated ketogenic diet is primarily about metabolic health, and weight normalization is only one of the consequences of the restoration of health. Moreover, “normalization” is the key word here, because a well-formulated ketogenic diet promotes a healthy weight in terms of muscle tissue, bone density, and fat tissue, and it is not unknown for the diet to cause someone to gain muscle and increase bone density simultaneously with losing fat. This normalization process really messes with the heads of people who are focused on losing weight, rather than on losing fat.

I well remember a woman who joined these forums several months ago, and who was in despair because she gained muscle on keto, meaning that her scale weight did not change. Unfortunately for her, she did not want to hear that she was healthier, she wanted the scale to read a certain number. True, it was a great disappointment when we told her that is NOT how keto works, but it would not have done her a service to hide that truth from her.

The moral of the story is that if you don’t want stronger muscles and less fragile bones, then keto is probably not for you.


#20

Well, we can agree on that, for sure.

Well, not for me, and not for a lot of people, and my goals and their goals are not wrong. Telling people their desires and goals are wrong is incredibly shaming. This is really the main point I’m trying to make.

Since this is what most people mean when they say “weight loss”–including me–this seems a bit pedantic. However, since I’m quite the language pedant myself when it suits me, I have zero wiggle room on this. :grin:

I get there are some people who really only want to see the scale move and don’t understand (or don’t care) that they may be shifting fat that the scale isn’t showing. But my concern is more with people saying they want weight loss and instead of someone explaining about the difference between scale changes and fat loss, they respond with something like “You want the wrong thing. You should be more concerned about metabolic problems that you may or may not have.” I don’t think it’s helpful or supportive. Plus, I worry people come away thinking that there’s no point in them trying keto, because they don’t have metabolic problems, and they’ll just have to go back to being miserable on a low-calorie diet to achieve their goals.

I think this is something of a chicken-or-egg argument, based on one’s perspective. If what you want is metabolic or some other health cure, then a well-formulated very low carb diet may seem to be primarily about that with weight/fat loss as a side effect. But if your goal is weight/fat loss, then the metabolic mechanism is just something that helps you achieve that. I think people should do this for whatever they need to do it for. Your goals don’t negate mine and vice versa.