Cheating-not cheating

(less is more, more or less) #21

I’m posting as a forum member and not an admin. Time has lapsed, as I needed time to regain my calm from such a grotesque allegation.

There is no universe where I can parse this conversation and find any member shaming another member. I see an open, informed, and spirited exchange of ideas. @PaulL is, by far, one of our most astute, intelligent, and charitable contributors. I fully acknowledge that I’m terse to a fault. Shaming has not happened here, except for, I ironically note, the attempt to shame points of view with whom a member disagrees.

Having said this, if any forum member feels that a post has shamed you or another member, I strongly recommend that you flag it. There is no place for shame on these forums. The admins here are robustly and thoroughly fair when flagged posts come to their attention. We all make mistakes and I know that when I fail, and I will, the admins will take care of the situation appropriate.

#22

Well, obviously there’s no way we’re going to agree here, except on your points about @PaulL, where, in general, I agree whole-heartedly.

I understand your anger, because I was also extremely angry. I have seen this tone from more than one person on the forums. I stand by what I said and saw people respond in various ways that they agreed with me.

I hope (and mostly assume) that people who have made these kinds of generalized statements had no intention of shaming others. Nonetheless, it is shaming. I felt it and others felt it. I think all of us here have endured this enough over the years about weight or health issues that we really don’t need to keep doing it to each other.

(less is more, more or less) #23

Please speak for yourself. Others are free to weigh in if they wish.

#24

They did. I’m not sure what’s wrong with me remarking on it.

(less is more, more or less) #25

In this thread, within the parameters of this thread? You’re the only one that has broached it.

#26

I think this has been beaten to death. I don’t need to prove anything to you and I do not want to continue to argue with you. I’m done.

(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #27

I think @PaulL has always made a good point that fat loss isn’t always reflected in a person’s weight. We all know this to a certain extent, when the scale wouldn’t budge, but we some how got into some smaller pants.

There’s nothing wrong with educating or reminding people that muscle and bone have a say in the matter. If someone wants to base their goals solely on scale weight, that’s great. Goals are personal and everyone has the right to their own. But if they come to a forum and ask why their goal isn’t working they’re asking a large group of people with experience on the subject. If the majority tell them that’s a tough goal to have, it may not work out for you, then it’s up to the person to rethink their goal or not listen to the advice. It’s not up to the forum to tell people what they think is a good idea, it’s to share experiences and give advice when someone is asking.

I can’t think of a time I’ve ever seen anyone be “shamed” for using a ketogenic way of eating for weight loss. In fact I see people posting weight loss successes, before and after photos, stories of passing carbs by and needing new clothes and a whole bunch of congratulations for them. I would be happy to have a shaming post pointed out because it would be addressed.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #28

I’d like to thank the people who’ve said nice things about me on this thread, it means a lot. The irony of shaming people for shaming aside, my thought on the matter is that the people who come to us are looking for good advice and the benefit of everyone’s practical experience. We try to give it kindly, but it serves no one to let people continue in a misconception, even if hearing the truth is uncomfortable.

According to Dr. Lustig’s estimate, only 20% of obese people are metabolically healthy, and at least 30% of the non-obese are, unbeknownst to themselves or their physicians, metabolically damaged. According to the late Joseph Kraft, Type II diabetes can be detected with the proper tests long before the problem shows up in blood sugar levels. In the U.S., this works out to well over half the population with some form of metabolic derangement. So the odds are that anyone who has come to these forums asking about keto has some form of metabolic derangement. Not only that, but undamaged metabolic health is well worth preserving, and damage is worth repairing, as the experiences of many people in my family can attest. It is surely no shame to say that or to hear that.

Not only that, but to say that keto works by restoring the hormonal signaling and that fat loss is a consequence of the restoration of a normal metabolism is a statement of fact, and facts shame nobody. It is basic endocrinology that insulin is the primary fat-storage hormone, and that fat loss cannot occur in a high-insulin environement. People need to know that, because not knowing how their body works will prevent them from achieving their goal, whether it be weight loss or metabolic healing, or both.

In my view, it doesn’t matter why people come here. If they want to lose fat, we can show them how we did it. If they want to restore their metabolic health, there are plenty of us who can show them how to do that. But if they have been sold a bill of goods about keto in the popular press, they need to know that, so that they can be prepared to accept the progress they will actually experience, especially if it’s not the progress they arrived here hoping to see. There is enough wrong information out there that we need to be as accurate as possible about how things really work.

Anyone who can suggest a kindlier way of stating the truth is welcome to do so. But to suggest that the truth not be spoken is absurd. Lies have made us sick; it is the truth that will set us free.