Centurians - people who have lost more than 100 lbs

[Saphire]

start weight: 172kg at 186cm

Current weight: 115kg at 188cm

You grew 2 centimeters? How old were you?

[aussiewill]

ha im 28,
The doctor explained to me that having a senative lifestyle and carrying extra weight on my joints when i stood made me shorter. when the pressure was relieved and I was more active i grew back to 188cm

[richard]

Is the serum insulin level that will block lipolysis somewhat similar for everyone, or is it a number that everyone needs to find for themselves?

The graph I usually use is one I got from Ted Naiman. The actual study that those data points came from had 2 lines. One for non diabetics and one for diabetics.

Notice the non diabetics (white dots) once their free insulin gets above 60 pmol (10 mIU/l) their palmitate flux (which is a measure of free fatty acids being released from adipose) goes to almost zero.

Now the diabetics (black dots) are a different case, their various insulin resistant tissues mean their levels are higher and that means they would have no access all the time. Because of their adipose IR they can never quite put the lid on release of energy from body fat, their palmitate flux is always at least 0.3 even when free insulin is over 240 pmol (60 mIU/l). That difference we are looking at in that chart between the line the white dots end at and the black dots do is adipose insulin resistance.

It’s worth noting that whenever there is any of those free fatty acids in circulation while the pancreas is making insulin it makes MORE. So that is a person with runaway insulin resistance just getting worse until the pancreas like Engineer Scot on the Enterprise “Can giver 'er no more, Cap’n”.

The black dot is most of us before we go keto, the white dot is us when we’ve been keto for a few months and lost a good percent of our body fat and our adipose tissue has become healthy.

That right there, the white dot where fat coming out of the adipose goes to zero … that is our plateau. It means our fat cells have become healthy again and doing their job.

We just need whatever tissue is still keeping insulin elevated to relax now.

btw, I’ve got my fasted insulin level down from 36 in april '17 to 14 by the end of '17, and was wondering how soon I might be seeing a body that is willing to let go some more fat from adipose tissues

I was at 29.3 in April of 2016, last check in July it was 13.8 … about to go for another test in the next few weeks to see where I’m at. I’ve lost another 8kgs since July so it might be good news. BTW one time where I was able to get it to change was the 3 months I went off metformin to see if my glucose could be controlled with no drugs. It turned out that it COULD but by making a LOT more insulin.

[Brenda]

when the pressure was relieved and I was more active i grew back to 188cm

This happened to me as well
And others!

Keto made me TALLER!

I grew taller on Keto. I am shocked. This is the question I posed to my brilliant friend, @donna: “I’m 5’ 7 1/4” I thought I was 5’6" for YEARS I think I grew on keto. Srs, is that possible at age 50???" I was shocked at her reply: “You get taller as you lose weight. Being obese compresses the spine and makes you shorter.” ARE YOU [spoiler] FUCKING[/spoiler] KIDDING ME!!! She replied: “No. Excess weight compresses the spinal disks and squishes them down. Look at x-rays of obese vs.…

[aussiewill]

and for me and my dream of joining the navy gets my BMI closer to what they want it at.

[richard]

would it be that fat adaption is a multi phased process?

The term fat adaptation is also used for the 2-6 weeks that the body takes to adapt to fat as a primary fuel - so maybe we should call it an adaptation to a lower body weight.

Where stage one is where the tissue with the lowest IR becomes insulin sensitive and then the second lot of tissue that is more IR becomes IS and so on?

I think you are on to something there.

what would the n=1 experiment look like to wrestle back the sensitivity from IR tissues when we are genuinely sitting on a plateau? An IF/EF with adequate protein and ZC?

So the first tissue is the one that was driving the bus out of control. Fat not doing it’s job and conserving energy when there is glucose about drives the pancreas batshit. I believe it is definitely the tissue with it’s foot on the accelerator driving higher insulin the hardest. But muscle cells willingness to clear glucose, the hypothalamus’s willingness to request less insulin via the vagus nerve, and the livers willingness to make less glucose when stimulated by glucacon … oh and the pancreatic alpha cells ability to stop making glucagon when insulin is high … all of those are tissues that get a vote on how much insulin is produced. And there may be more - I’m not an expert.

Oh wait there is another player that has a bigger role in driving insulin than adipose tissue. The high carb diet. So that was the maniac driving the bus at ludicrous speed. We put a sleeper hold on THAT by going keto. THEN we lost enough weight for our body fat to take a valium and chillax.

Now we have some previously minor players who still have a vote. But the good news is the bus is down to a normal speed, and when they get bored we’ll come to a gradual stop.

I think time at the lowest exposure we can engineer is the cure. That means that IF/EF and ZC are all viable arrows in our quivver.

… and I think I have finally run out of metaphors to mix

[KetoKnitterNZ]

Thanks for giving some time to my questions/ponderings.

[Karo_Isst_Keto]

you guys are amazing! Every single picture is an inspiration and motivation! you rock!

[Christina_Cork]

Hi fellow ketoers!

I’ve lost 105lbs so far since starting keto in February 2016. I’ve pleateaued hard over the last 6 months but I feel really good still so I’m just going to KCKO!

I’ve done every single diet you can think of. At my heaviest I was 261lbs, eating 800 calories a day and exercising like a maniac. How I didn’t drop dead I’ll never know. When I found keto I knew it was right for me as the first week I lost 8lbs. I reversed PCOS, I came of my thyroid meds but most importantly the chronic anxiety I had went away and I was able to come of my anxiety meds with ZERO panic attacks.

I’m astounded that so many problems can be caused by insulin and the importance of the food we eat. It amazed me so much that I enrolled in college and am studying to be a nutritionist. I was looking at Dietician but I think we all know I would never be able to really prescribe keto without any issues. So I’m going to be a Nutritional Therapist. My life has literally done 180 degree turn thanks to keto.

[richard]

wow well done on the weight loss Christina, and on the plan to go back to school to help others. Something very similar happened to me too.

We have a tsunami of diabetes headed towards us, and those of us who know the way out of the maze have to help others, and encourage them to help more that we can’t get to.

[katyq02]

Disclaimer: Art History major here, NOT a science person! As I struggle through this specific thread on this (amazingly wonderful) larger thread I want to confirm what I think I am reading:

If I am not IR (which I don’t think I am although I have no proof) and have plateaued after losing about 59lbs on Lazy Keto for 7 months (I don’t do macros because I have never been able to figure them out, but I stay below 20 carbs because I can add), then perhaps I now need to reduce my fat intake so that my body will go into my remaining fat stores for energy and help me lose the 10-15 last pounds – AND I will remain sated while doing that?

There are so many NSVs so far, but one I particularly like is not being hungry…

Sorry for my denseness re: the science. I do struggle through it, but I want to make sure that I am understanding correctly! Thanks in advance for any clarity you can offer!!

[twistle]

Thank you for the prompt reply @richard - I was wondering though - I’m obviously insulin resistant (with the starting fasted insulin serum level of 36 it couldn’t really be anything else) but I have no other markers for diabetes - my doctor is a really reasonable woman who did agree back in april '17 to do the fasted serum insulin test, even though she didn’t see anything else to point to needing it, and my health insurance refused to pay for it (I paid out of pocket) and interestingly enough, the billing system didn’t have a code for the test - it showed up on the billing as “miscellaneous” - that shows I think how rarely it is looked for as a regular thing. - anyway - sorry diversion recovery…

I certainly feel as though with the fasting insulin level of 14 my IR is going in the right direction, but I think I am right in assuming that it needs to go down and stay down for long enough to get cellular turn-over to produce me more Insulin receptors on my IR cells, and I’m not sure whether the “diabetic” vs. “non-diabetic” on that graph is referring to current level of cellular IR, or actual pancreatic/liver management of blood sugars and true T2D - do you have any thoughts on that, which line should i be looking at

Thank you!

[richard]

I think the easiest strategy is to eat until you are satisfied, and then eat your next meal when you are hungry, but not before at least 3 hours have passed. Treasure that time with low insulin in between meals.

I don’t think restricting fat before satiety is a great strategy, because on a keto diet fat is your energy … so it’s exactly the same thing as calorie restriction. And we know what that does - it will reduce your metabolic rate, use a little lean mass for energy, make you hungry, and as soon as you start eating to satiety again you will probably yoyo.

[richard]

I’m obviously insulin resistant (with the starting fasted insulin serum level of 36 it couldn’t really be anything else)

If you want to know you can do a HOMA:IR Calculation, so you take your fasting glucose in mmol/l and multiple that by the fasting insulin (at the same blood collection - that’s important) and divide by 22.5 = a number that tells you how more insulin resistant you are than the reference human (a healthy 35 year old man). at 36 … and let’s say your fasted glucose was 5 = you would be 8x more insulin resistant than the reference human. Definitely IR, sorry.

I’m not sure whether the “diabetic” vs. “non-diabetic” on that graph is referring to current level of cellular IR

That’s adipose IR. I believe that once you and I hit 14 and plateaued, we became white dots with the insulin levels of black dots.

In other words it’s a good thing. Our adipose tissue has become healthy. We still have high insulin, but it’s other tissues keeping that elevated and they will slowly reduce that.

[LizinLowell]

Fascinating! What causes the other IR tissues to heal, do you think? Extended relief from insulin exposure (EF)? Just time spent eating Keto? What do you guess the timeline is, years?

[richard]

Extended relief from insulin exposure (EF)? Just time spent eating Keto?

Yes, pretty much. Remember how we got there, a decade of insulin in the 100s.

What do you guess the timeline is, years?

Mine is just starting to come down now after 3 years keto. Every year 10% of your adipose tissue is recycled. So in 10 years you won’t have any fat cells that remember being diabetic.

The nice thing is … well keto isn’t a diet. I mean it isn’t one you screw up your courage and willpower and suffer till you finish the diet. It’s just how I live now. How I fuel my body. And it’s quite enjoyable.

[Carina]

about to go for another test in the next few weeks to see where I’m at.

Could you please keep us posted? You are the perfect n=1 for seeing how keto lowers fasting insulin, and how long it takes. I know test results are sensitive information, so it’s a soft request

[twistle]

oh cool - so from that my numbers say my HOMA:IR went from 7.1 in april '17 to 3.1 in dec '17 - so if I just KCKO I think I should be seeing ongoing good things happening

you are very right about Keto being a way of getting progressively better at doing things in a healthy way, without feeling like you are punishing yourself for a lifetime of wrongdoing!

Thank you!

[katyq02]

Thank you and okay, yea, I totally don’t/didn’t understand what y’all were talking about then! But the wonderful part is that understanding the science is NOT a prerequisite –
even for us Art majors! Keeping Keto simple has been (very) good to me, so I won’t second-guess and just KC and KO! .Thanks again!

[Patrick_Belair]

Hi 2 keto dudes fans.

My LC/Keto journey started on April 1st 2016 after reading Dr Fung book.
I found Dr Fung site by googling “Dawn effect” after my doctor told me that it was too difficult to explain!

Anyway my starting stats were approx:
140kg (308lbs)
A1C: 6.2 (fasting always arounf 7)
ALT:61 (worst at 78)
CRP: 4 (worst was 10.5)
Trigs: 1.68
HDL:1.41
LDL:2.6

Latest stats:
88kg (194lbs)
A1C: 5.2 (fasting always around 5.5)
ALT:16
CRP: 1
Trigs: 0.8
HDL:1.7
LDL:2.8
The last blood test is from 1 year ago, I will have my new results tomorrow.

Thanks to the 2 Dudes and everybody for spreading the knowledge.