Carnovore Ketone Confusion

(Fiddlestix H. McWhiskers) #1

I was able to kick the last of the sweets I was eating about a week ago and I finally reached ketosis. I’ve been using the urine test strips from CVS and they use mg/dL instead of mml/L. According to the strips, I’ve been consistently matching the color that corresponds to 40 mg/dL. I used an online converter and it says that that converts to 2.22 mml/L. Is that a good ketone level for fat loss?

I’m only eating 73/27 ground beef, chuck roasts, tilapia, canned sardines in water, poached eggs, butter, pork rinds, salt, pepper and, of course, water. I’m on my second day of intermittent fasting (12-7). Do I need to get my ketones higher? Do I need to give up any of the things I’m eating?

Sorry if this is TMI.

(KM) #2

If this is legitimately the only food you are eating, you should be in more or less continuous ketosis. At this point you should be getting the full “keto carnivore experience” . You could try reducing protein / increasing fat, this could theoretically boost your ketones, but I would suggest you hang out with what you are eating right now and see how it works for you. It sounds like a healthy diet with some variety, and your ketone levels are good.

#3

Literally no such thing, your ketone levels don’t correlate with fat loss. You can be at 4, or trace amounts, you’re measuring what you’re peeing back out, not what you’re making / burning. I almost never got above 0.5 unless I was fasting, lost around 100lbs in a year like that. The ketone levels really don’t matter, only that they’re there.

The only people that can benefit from measuring them is people using Keto as a medical intervention that directly benefit from having their levels higher, or people that are trying to maintain the nootropic effect of having high ketones. Everybody else only needs to eat keto friendly foods and let the low carb intake do it’s thing.

(Cathy) #4

Urine test strips can only tell you what ‘may’ have happened hours previously but not necessarily. Because as stated above, they measure waste ketones. If you prefer to have a more accurate measure, use a blood ketone testing method. Those measure ketones that are circulating in your body at the time you measure them.

I like the thought that ketosis is a bit like pregnancy - either you are or you are not. Doesn’t matter what the test strip says in terms of numbers.

(BuckRimfire) #5

It’s a cliché in keto circles: “chase results, not ketones.” As others said, if you are only eating what you wrote, there’s no way you’re not in ketosis after a few days (barring some serious metabolic deficiency that prevents ketogenesis, in which case I assume you’d be either feeling horribly sick or dead).

If weight loss is your goal, the real question is are you losing weight? The problem with that question is that it is confounded by water weight fluctuations (which I suspect are sometimes overstated by people pooh-poohing keto, but there seems to be some truth to it) and so weight is something that presumably reads out reliably only over a time-course of weeks or longer. It would be reasonable to want a rapid form of feedback in ketone testing.

I am certainly guilty of testing myself. I bought pee sticks within a very few weeks of staring the diet. (They never showed much for me, except one day after a couple of months when I went sea-kayaking at a fairly good pace for almost five hours, then tested after that and after having not eaten for over six hours, but my spousal critter got visible low but positive test results under more “normal” circumstances.). I bought a Ketonix within the first year, although I later discovered that it is seems to be a false-positive generator, based on their own website. I’m now on my second Keto-Mojo, because they changed the design and I could no longer get test strips for the first one, and I just got a fresh box of strips last month.

I’m doing keto primarily for fear of dementia, not weight loss. I’m one of those hateful monsters who’s BMI seemingly CAN’T be not 21, regardless of my eating or physical training, so I wouldn’t know what was going on if I didn’t test. But testing for a love of data or seeing positive reinforcement is legitimate for anyone, IMHO. Just don’t assume that you have to hit a certain number to get what you want in terms of weight loss, from what I’ve read.

(Fiddlestix H. McWhiskers) #6

Weight loss is, indeed, one of my goals, as well as the hope in clearing up several other issues that I have, and preventing others. I have been completely sugar free for 7 days and 9 hours, as of this writing, and the only carbs I could have consumed are those that are in the poached eggs and black pepper I’ve had. According to the strips, I’ve been in ketosis at somewhere between 2.2 and 4 for, at least, 5 days. I’ve been weighing myself in my birthday suit every day and I have lost, maybe, one pound. I’m almost 52, I’m 5’10 and I weigh 192 pounds.

The only difference I feel, so far, is that my mood seems to be slightly more pleasant than usual and a feeling that is mild, but indescribable; almost like feeling like I’ve just stepped out of the shower. I’m not frustrated or impatient, I’m just confused.

(KM) #7

When I wasn’t seeing scale results, I would occasionally give myself a little self righteous pat on the back just for giving my liver, my pancreas, my gut, my brain and my arteries a well deserved break. I believe in what I was eating, and I still do, I firmly feel this is the right thing for my body and mind even if my fat cells don’t always seem to be cooperating. As they used to say, keep calm and keto on. :slightly_smiling_face:

#8

Great work Mr. Fiddlestix, you are on the correct path by your description. No need to chase ketone numbers except for being in nutritional ketosis to confirm your low-insulin state. And once in a low-insulin metabolic state then using your body fat for fuelling your activity is all lined up properly. I reckon ‘clothes fit’ is a better metric for bodyfat loss progress.

#9

You can also not be in ketosis on a carnivore diet due to the influence of other hormones such as cortisol. The carnivore diet is not necessarily a ketogenic diet as some versions can be very high in protein, and whole food carnivore protein (meat, eggs, fish) does include a proportion of cellular material that is a mix of macro and micro-nutrients. I received that learning initially through Dr. Gabrielle Lyon and it has been repeated by some physiology focussed doctors. Measuring blood glucose is an interesting exercise on a carnivore diet as there can be some higher tan expected blood glucose results at times, and when those higher blood glucose results occur, the intrinsic blood glucose physiological response is to secrete insulin, which will impact blood ketone production and body fat loss through lipolysis. It can happen to very keen and determined beginners with a strict focus on dietary goals. This way of eating is one of frequent readjustments without losing the foundations as your health improves.

For body fat loss, a well formulated ketogenic diet is more optimal, I reckon, and including things like reduced feeding windows/ intermittent fasting, regular low stress enjoyable physical activity (if able), punctuate that with resistance training (if able), focussing and achieving good sleep habits to achieve at least 1hr (goal) of deep sleep per night, again repeatably and regularly. That keto diet formulation still has a moderate protein guide. Lowering life stresses by ‘feeding’ good relationships with good people, and finding the ability to say, ‘no’ to requests, or at least say, ‘maybe next week’.

(Bean) #10

After two-ish years of carnivore, I have lost some weight. Not a lot, but some. I have had significant health gains and my clothes fit as if I’ve lost more. The health gains have been worth it. I’m mixing in some fasting, weight training, and running to trim up a bit more (but only because I love running). ETA. I’ve reintroduced some non carnivore things at this point, but I find that I mostly still just eat carnivore. And I do watch my protein/ fat ratio and focus on higher fat now.

#11

Moderate protein isn’t possible for everyone, thankfully one can lose fat with high protein too if they can find the right, personal method for it. It may be harder but we must play with the cards we got. I never cared about ketones, just followed the feedback of my body, it’s very reliable, fortunately. Never lost fat on keto (or just for days, possibly) but I know the reason for it: too much fat. Fat is too awesome and it’s not my only vice, to put it lightly. I just had to find amazing lower-fat items to enjoy AND avoid seeing even more amazing high-fat items (my temptation resistance is non-existent). It’s for when I actually do carnivore(-ish), of course.

Even without fat-loss, carnivore (or something close to it) brought pretty nice benefits for me. (I really should go back already, IDK what has happened in the last year…)

(Jim) #12

The only thing I would do is ditch the tilapia or any other lean proteins. Also it’s not a good thing to be in ketosis long term. I also was always striving to turn the strips dark myself, but once you are fat adapted, you will stop being in ketosis. I believe that is because your body starts using ketones much more efficiently and you’re not peeing them out. I have been strict carnivore (lion diet) for almost a year now and I can no longer turn the strips any color. Looks like everything else you are eating is good. Myself I usually eat one meal a day. Just keep us posted on your progress. I am a Certified Carnivore Coach, so I would interested in tracking your progress.

(Fiddlestix H. McWhiskers) #13

Thank you for the encouragement.

That’s very interesting. I’m not familiar with that certification. What organization certified you and where can I find more information about that process?

(Not a cow) #14

You can still get ketone and blood strips for the old Keto-Mojo. I know it’s too late for you, ;), since you purchased a new one, but for anyone else still wanting to test blood and ketones with your old Mojo, I purchase mine at the company site bestketonetest.com which I have used for years and years. Just received my most recent buy yesterday, and they are a solid company.