Carnivores: Rough estimate, what's the % of your meat&fat types?

fats
carnivore
ros
(PJ) #1

I’ve been reading a lot lately from fireinabottle.net and talking with friends about it and on two threads here (here and here).

So I’ll skip all the details except to say that “sufficiently saturated” fat vs all other fats is the topic of interest.

Pork and chicken fat in today’s market differ from beef fat – see this blog post for more detail on why and how.

I got to thinking about how some people lose weight on keto but seem to stall but then eat carnivore and may do well in losing the weight they could not before. And of course, I can’t help but wonder how much of that might be related to an increase in the % of saturated fat in their diet vs. other kinds of fats.

Obviously this is tough to measure because I’m pretty sure you can eat packaged pork rinds and pepperoni and diet coke and lose weight on low-carb… I’ve known a lot of people who did. It’s usually the issue of the “only get to point X and then everything seems to stall / tread water” that is the issue I’m wondering about here.

Have any of you pointedly “lost fat on carnivore that you did not lose on keto even though you were not eating significantly fewer calories to explain this?” (Yes, I know, don’t start about calories, I’m just saying, we gotta normalize the numbers before it’s any comparison.)

Of those who did: what is your (loosely) intake of ruminant (beef bison lamb) vs. pork poultry fish?

And for cooking oils: what is your intake of beef tallow vs. pork lard vs. dairy butter vs. coconut oil vs. duck fat?

Lastly: do YOU think, in reviewing your eating on keto and then on carnivore, that there might be any reason to suspect that an increase in saturated fat could potentially have any relationship to the different experience?

PJ

(bulkbiker) #2

I manage to lose (and maintain for the most part) a further 10 pounds switching from keto to carniviore and finaly got below 200 pounds. Was 199.6 pounds this morning!
I have a further 20 pounds that I would ideally like to lose but I fear it will be hard work!
Most of the weight loss came about through a beef only January at the start of 2019.
After that I loosened up and maintained the loss eating all and any meats, fish etc… with a few deviations into raspberries and 90% cocoa chocolate. I still also have the UK equivalent of HWC (double cream) in my multiple coffees every day.
I probably eat beef and lamb three days a week in the maintenance period and have pork poultry the rest of the time fish rarely.
Rarely use cooking oil but always animal fat in nature as I have been barbecuing (grilling to our US cousins) most meals even in the cold and rain of a UK winter.
Although I monitor macros unfortunately I don’t have a breakdown of fat types from meals so can’t help with the raised sat fat Q.

#3

Holy moly LOL but I will tackle it in your post you are asking.
Focus is what crap you give up in your body vs. how the good fat helps you :slight_smile:

ok I think…think I hit what I wanted to say on what you are asking :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

#4

Totally estimating b/c I’m a year in and haven’t done macros since very early on. I’d say I’m about 60-80% fat by calories depending on the day. I ate a whole 10lb turkey over the last 4 days which should be higher in protein but my normal diet is about 70-90% beef and eggs with various fats but mostly tallow, lard, butter, some olive oil and some avocado. I do eat the odd rack of pork ribs, sausage or pork belly.

My biggest switch this year is more towards GF and pasture raised meat, along with getting all my fats from GF and pastured sources, other than a bit of olive or coconut oil here or there. I was eating quite a bit of green vegetables last year but i’m going to cut back or eliminate for a while to see if it helps my arthritis. I went keto to begin with b/c of the arthritis and it helped a lot in the beginning to middle of last year, slid backwards in the fall and then much better in December. Eliminate then add back and see if there are any changes.

My before after:

Tim%20Before%20and%20after

(PJ) #5

That may be. But many people didn’t eat many plants to begin with, and might not have an issue dealing with what they do eat. Also: shifting out plants from the diet might also shift out antioxidants which might be interfering with the ROS signal (if the ROS theory is correct). But that signal is only present with enough saturated fat, so eating chicken isn’t going to trigger it even with zero plants in the diet. I’m just curious as to whether beef (caveat: minus sugar or massive antioxidants in other intake) might specifically help some people with fat loss. It might be boring to eat it all the time and so not a workable diet for most, but if it’s useful, it might be worth occasionally periods of focus. It is possible that your theory based wholly on plants=bad might be the reason carnivore diet works well for many people, but that doesn’t preclude there might also be other reasons, I figure!

#6

agreed. red meat/fat content trumps other fats from fowl etc.
carnivores will say mostly beef is their fav best food and where they do their best. chicken, lamb, pork, etc is variety food as is seafood, shrimp/crab and more.

profiles of chicken, etc is not a great fat. this video he chats that real fast…pork info at time stamp 14:01 and chicken fat info at 14:18. little blurb about it.

Clean Keto on a Budget - ALDI Grocery Haul

Is this what you are asking. The red meat fats are superior to pork and chicken??

(mole person) #7

Yes, my caloric intake has clearly increased quite a bit while my body fat declined. I won’t say that I lost a ton of weight because I was only 110 lbs when I started carnivore but that 110-112 lb range had been stable forever and I had to OMAD most days to maintain it. When I switched to carnivore l lost 6 more lbs fairly rapidly while eating more food and 2-3 meals every day (although once my hunger normalized I dropped back to 1-2 because I simply never wanted that third meal anymore).

Very high. I stopped craving poultry entirely and I have a more inflammatory response to pork than to beef and lamb so I eat much less pork and only the very fattiest cuts (belly, rib, shoulder).

I use almost no cooking oil at all. And when I do it’s only tallow. I get nearly all of my fat from solid meat fat that I cook, and I eat a ton of it.

Carnivore worked poorly for me until I took up the keto-carnivore macros of 2:1 fat:protein by weight which is 82% fat. But that much fat in rendered form nauseated me badly. Eating it while it’s still within it’s cellular matrix does not, and I am finally in my best health.

No, but I don’t know at all what the most relevant factors are. There are just too many possibilities that I can think of and no solid evidence either way. The only thing that I can say for sure is that I do put one a few pounds if I eat a lot of chicken and pork but it’s not fat weight. It’s purely inflammation weight. After three days back on pure beef/lamb all the pounds evaporate.

(PJ) #8

I’m not sure superior is the word I’d use, but I was curious if people who shifted their food intake in a way that didn’t change super radically in terms of carbs but did in terms of food choices, and did so in favor of meat when it was mostly red meat, had seen a difference in their results. Someone on The Chicken Diet wouldn’t be able to answer the question, the change would have to involve “more red meat” in the diet.

Of course there’s a lot of stuff in red meat! – so even if it did in fact show better results in fat loss and lean mass and better satiety, that doesn’t mean it’s the fat profile responsible. But looking to see if red meat DID seem to have better results in those areas is a place to start.

And carnivores are mostly the people who’d be the experts on specifically meat in the diet. Most the lowcarb and keto people I know are as much or more likely to eat chicken, bacon, and various forms and products of cheese, for their protein.

(Erin Macfarland ) #9

I’m not carnivore though I did try it a few years ago for about 6 weeks…I felt ravenous all the time, had low energy despite being fat adapted for a long time prior to going to all animal based food. Any way…just wanted to say I’m totally enthralled by the fire in a bottle site- pretty fascinating information!!

(Bob M) #10

In terms of PUFAs, we really need an RCT. While I believe in Petro D’s theory about sat fat/PUFAs/MUFAs, we need to get two groups of people: one eating basically beef or other low PUFA sources, and one eating chicken/pork/other higher PUFA sources.

I think this is easier to do with Keto, as you could add nuts (almonds = monster PUFA machines), avocados, bacon, etc. (I’d say dairy, but dairy is usually higher in saturated fat, with little PUFAs.) Just eating meat makes it a bit harder.

I try to eat more beef and limit chicken, but chicken is easy to eat and cook at times. So is pork.

(Davy) #11

I hit stall after 2 weeks Keto…then learned of Carnivore and have been doing that 98% anyway, since. The fat loss then continued.
I hit very closely, by calories 2:1 ratio fats to protein and/or 1:1 fats to protein with the grams of each.
I’d guess I eat 60% beef vs 40% all other.

(PJ) #12

My primary food is chicken in many dishes, and pork chili verde is my favorite dish (and best for fat loss in my experience. I once ate 37 4oz meals (6/day) of the stuff in a row lol). The whole fat review was kinda depressing on these.

Cocoa butter is easy to put in my coffee with cocoa, but hardly fit for meat dishes. Butter has its limits. I have beef tallow now that I haven’t yet tried, not sure how invasive the flavor is. Maybe I could at least add that to stew (use it to sautee stuff going into the stew or chili verde), or use it for chicken stir-fry.

There is going to have to be some serious additive-SFA going on in my diet to make this possible for me, because aside from taco meat and the rare steak eaten at a restaurant, I don’t eat much beef myself. I dislike all the gristle and solid fat and I feel like I spend half my time picking all the grossness out of my food and then lose half of it to that, it’s just not worth it. I realize some of this is walmart factory beef but that’s what I have. And I realize ground chuck just has the same crap blended in but at least it doesn’t gross me out in the middle of dinner, it’s nicely hidden!

What is the RCT acronym?

#13

@RightNOW PJ, how much cocoa butter do you add? I have a bag at home, but I still have to figure out if it is cacao or cocoa butter…:joy::woman_facepalming:

(PJ) #14

Hi @Meerkatsandy,

Currently I’m using 4 of the kiss-style pieces (2g ea) and 1 of the fluted-cup style pieces that also has cocoa melted into it. This goes with 10-12 oz hot coffee (DeathWish brand lol), about 3oz each of unsweetened vanilla almond milk and 3oz heavy whipping cream, and about 1.5 Tbsp powdered swerve (get everything melted in the coffee before adding the cold stuff). This fills up my 20oz mug to full and it’s very filling.

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/pjs-n-1-experiment-journal-and-ramblings/83825/277?u=rightnow

#15

Deathwish :joy:
That is one mighty cup of coffee :slight_smile: Thanks :slight_smile: