Carnivore + veg?

(Tony) #1

At the moment I’m trying to lose some body fat, My trouser waist is 32" and I’d like to go down a size to give you an idea…
I am currently eating just meat and non starchy veg (probably less than 50g a day of carbs, certainly not enough to kick me out of ketosis.) Will going full carnivore i.e. cutting out the veg seriously help me to lose weight?

(Elizabeth ) #2

It might but it’s not a weight loss diet. Weight is 80% hormones not calories. But it will sort out your hormones and your metabolism as long as you’re eating enough, and we recommend starting with about 2 lb of meat a day as much as 3 or 4 if you do heavy exercise or work.

(Jack Bennett) #3

Maybe? The only way to know for sure is to try it and see…

(Tony) #4

Haha, I guess so. I losing around 1kg a month at the moment, it doesn’t sound much but if I can sustain it with no hunger I’m happy. If I plateau I’ll have a go at removing the veg, will probably practice with no veg meals/days in the meantime.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #5

If you don’t have much fat to lose, it will take a fair amount of time to lose it. The people who lost a lot in a fairly short period of time had a lot of fat to get rid of. And even for them, the final 20 lb. took longer than the first 200.

Bear in mind that this way of eating works by working with the body’s hormones, not by stinting on calories. Restricting calories is the signal of famine, and the body hangs on to it’s reserves to get us through. Fasting and feasting are the signals that it is safe to shed excess fat.

(Tony) #6

I put on 14lb from daily drinking alcohol for months during the March lockdown (my drinking is now only occasional), hopefully it won’t take too long to lose the weight as my calorific intake is much lower and I am eating to full satiety. I think the reason carnivore/keto works is because it manipulates our hunger hormones so we take in less calories. I got to my original low weight by 36h fasts but TBH I can’t be bothered to do them anymore, they are such hard work and take up time.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #7

Yes, we do end up eating less, at least until our excess fat is gone, but let me stress that there is a big difference between listening to our body and deliberately deciding to limit how much we eat.

(Tony) #8

I have no intention of ‘going a bit hungry all the time’ soul destroying and I think there’s evidence to show it’s not effective. If I have to I’ll do some 36h fasts with eating to full satiety in between but fingers crossed with very good diet and exercise that’ll be enough. I don’t mind if it takes 6 months to lose that 14lb as long as it’s enjoyable and sustainable.

(Elizabeth ) #9

That’s not actually true The calories in calories out has been debunked. Calories are a thing, but I actually stall in weight loss when I eat less than 2 lb of meat a day and I drop weight when I increase to 3 lb of meat a day. And ketones don’t manipulate anything We were designed to eat fat and meat. That’s our normal mode of operation not carbs.

(Jack Bennett) #10

Sounds like a reasonable plan. I’d recommend keeping a journal of your meals and observations since it’s so hard to remember the details of meals or your mental state even a week later, let alone a month or two.

#11

HI

if you are losing right now, even 2-3 lbs a month and eating what you like, not hungry and doing fine I would probably just stay put on keto plan. Carnivore is a great plan and if you want to try it, sure :slight_smile: but losing weight ‘faster’ might happen the first week or so, cause you will be dropping water weight from not eating plant carbs, but after that you are on a more restrictive plan and you might not lose any more weight then you are losing right now on eating the way you are…and like Jack said, only way to know is try it LOL

Sometimes we want things so fast but in the end, a long term enjoyable eating plan that suits your lifestyle is what is best for you, so if you are losing now and feeling great I would just hold where you are and ‘maybe clean up’ any keto plan eating a bit. You know, just watch your carb intake and eating fresh prepared foods etc.

It sounds like you are in a good place right now on your plan. You don’t have too much left to lose, you are enjoying your WOE so maybe just holding where you are longer and just see how you do is best.

best of luck to you!

#12

Who knows? Carbs mess with many of us I am sure, not in the same way though.
Losing fat is very complex, there are many factors… I eat the same amount on any woe except high-carb and stall on them all without extra “tricks”, it seems though I have no experience with long term carnivore. Many people are different but it’s really a complex thing, losing fat. Avoiding vegetables has some other benefits for me but I am sure it gives me better chances regarding fat-loss too. Carbs always made me overeat and losing control (I don’t actually want control, I just want to eat properly without effort and it’s easiest on extreme low-carb). Lower-carb makes me eat at maintenance, it’s something :slight_smile: But if I want to control my calorie intake to some extent (to make sure I won’t eat way too much), it’s easier as I lower my carbs. And nothing could make me eat very little but I don’t need that, it’s not even healthy. I upped my exercise, it’s always a good idea for me.

If you find it realistic to cut off all the veggies and you can imagine feeling better (I wouldn’t do it just for quicker fat-loss that might not happen at all), try it. I did ~40g net carbs keto and while it was fine for getting fat-adapted, going significantly lower (that I never could do with vegetables and other plants) opened a different world (even though my weight stayed exactly the same. I don’t even lose water weight anymore and it’s good as it means my muscles don’t lose volume, no matter my carb intake. I may have tiny muscles but I don’t want them even smaller)!
Carnivore or anything close to it is not for everyone but a trial may be worth it very much.

(Laurie) #13

Hi Tony. I’ve stopped eating vegetables, nuts, etc. But when I visited the carnivore threads, I found that this didn’t make me a true carnivore. It’s a separate system, that is not just “keto minus vegetables.” Perhaps you already knew this, but if not, perhaps you’d like to check it out.

Meanwhile, I’m doing fine on my no-veg keto. Good luck!

#14

Of course not, keto allows all plants… And carnivore none at all, basically.
But there are various things called carnivore, some are stricter, some are more relaxed…
And it’s a nice option just to do keto with super little carbs from plants… I think I can call this carnivore adjacent, it’s way more relaxed than my own carnivore-ish. Sometimes labels (more like the rules belonging to it) help us, eating properly has a big mental factor in my case and I can use every little help…

(Tony) #15

Thanks for all your replys guys, looks like I’ll just have to do some experimentation, might do another 2 weeks of meat+veg first so I have a point of comparison when I cut out the veg.

[Shinita] What do you mean cutting the veg opened a whole new world?

#16

It changed a bunch of things when I went extreme low-carb without plants. I don’t know if it was due to the very low carb intake or lack of certain plants as I can’t do them separately yet. I just know vegetarian keto with 40g net carbs and anything close to carnivore works differently for me. My appetite, hunger, control, desires/tastes, so many things changed. Many people have huge differences between ketosis and not ketosis, well I didn’t have that but maybe because my carb intake was higher…? Maybe not as we know that avoiding plants may have a huge effect too. And well, I added meat, it isn’t a tiny thing either.
But from my high-carb -> low-carb -> keto -> carnivore experiences, the last one was the most serious (the first being the second. keto felt about the same as low-carb, I “just” unlocked fat-adaptation).
It was almost magical. Now that I did it a bit longer, the difference is less but still huge. Many people can handle some carbs without any problems, well me too but only a little. Carbs interferes with many things. I can’t describe it well enough but without carbs I almost become a different person. I am still a hedonist and don’t resist temptation - but I almost never feel any kind of temptation. Keto is somewhat hard, I went off all the time, sometimes for a longer time… Carnivore is way easier, calmer, more convenient - I don’t stick to it all the time for reasons but it’s natural to stay close most of the time.
And it started with getting rid of my only serious problem on keto, vegetables and their carbiness. I had most of my carbs from vegetables and without them everything got easier. I automatically lost nuts too and I lost the need for fruits as well (I still love them and eat them in season but it’s no big deal to just stop for weeks. and they don’t interfere in super tiny amounts anyway).
I ate lots of sweets on keto too and on carnivore it abruptly stopped. I had some weak addiction to peanuts, I ate them every day, sometimes too much - and it stopped right away on carnivore and I never missed them. I ate chocolate every day since many years before carnivore, it was my big fav. And after some few days carnivore trials I just lost all desire towards it.
So I had really huge changes. Some of them (losing interest in certain items) are permanent, it seems, no matter how I eat at the moment. But I do change back to some extent if I add carbs for days. But I usually need some special extra troublesome carby food for it as I automatically lower my carbs again under normal circumstances. I don’t resist real temptation and eating very little carbs is very tempting - unlike it was during my original keto times, I liked that too and inevitably came back but not so easily and readily…

#17

Very good! The weight you lose slowly, you’re more likely to keep off, it seems. Because you’re giving yourself time to adapt, learn about food, about yourself.

I hope you keep losing without having to cut on anything. Good luck!

(Tony) #18

Shinita, your post prompted me to start carnivore. I’m on day 3 at the moment, I think I’ve been eating less calories (whilst eating to satiety). I’m finding it very easy but I guess I was almost doing it anyway!! Will report back.

#19

Yay :smiley: I think it’s worth a try for many, I really got benefits from it.
I underate in the beginning but it passed. It is usually easy to eat modestly but I can go over my energy need too. So I definitely will be able to do carnivore while maintaining or bulking or being very active.
We are all different experiences, I hope yours will be at least as good as mine :slight_smile: