Carnivore questions - liver, marrow, etc


(mole person) #21

You’ve gotten some great responses on how to eat liver and bone broth. I eat liver in a similar ways to others here. Sliced, seared, but keeping it lightly pink inside. I try to have at least a half pound a week, although I think I have probably been having much less than I want. It’s not that I don’t like it, I actually love it, but I tend to eat it as a side and I get lazy about cooking the extra dish.

I always have bone broth around. I don’t actually drink it as soup though. I have it with my meals either as part of a gravy or just as the cold gel on the side of the meat. I love the gel thing but my husband does not so I make the gravy.

Beyond those things, I try, whenever I can, to get meats with a lot of connective tissue. Beef shank is a good one for that. I’m planning on working on my butcher to get the parts of this cut that I know they throw out which are nearly entirely bone and connective tissue with barely any meat. They charge about $8 a pound for the shank and I won’t pay that for tendons and bone but I’d be ok with paying $3. It’s amazing what butchers will do for you if you ask.

The big thing for me that marks the difference between doing amazingly on carnivore and doing poorly is getting enough unrendered meat fats. This is why I asked about the sous vide. Keeping all the fat inside the fat cell matrix can only be done at lower cooking temperatures. However, to be honest, for almost all cuts I actually prefer the low/slow oven approach. It leads to a better taste and a much juicier meat. However there are a few exceptions and for these alone I do like to have the sous vide.

So I cook all my meat at temps between 150 and 175 in the oven or about 133 in the sous vide. Then after the long cook, once they are tender but still have all their fats locked inside I give it a very quick sear (steaks) or pop them under the broiler for a few minutes to develop a more intence umami flavour profile.

I also cook additional beef fat at 150 F. No sear for this though. After a couple of hours it is absolutely meltingly soft. I love it with all my meats as a side.

This diet keeps me in deep ketosis which is where my body and mind are happiest and without the horrible inflammation and neurological pain that plants seem to cause me. However, for me the high fats are a must. If I overdo on the protein my body goes into exactly the same “shock” as when I have a carb-out. Brain fog, extreme tiredness and lack of energy, achy knees, returned skin ailments and a tendancy to snacky hunger. The autoimmune/neurological symptoms stay suppressed as long as I eat only meat regardless of protein/fat ratio, but all the benefits that I experienced from originally going keto disappear if I don’t keep to a pretty high fat macro.


#22

One tip from my grandma…always season your liver just before you eat, never before or during the cooking process :slight_smile:


(mole person) #23

Oh interesting! I’ll try this.


(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #24

I just want to say I am really enjoying this discussion.

I grind liver into chuck roast and then sear it. I freeze portions that I take out for my lunches when I’m not fasting. So far I’ve found 23% liver by weight to be a bit too high. It affects the texture too much. Still very edible, just not perfection for me yet. Next grind (maybe tomorrow) I will try for 15% by weight.

@Ilana_Rose Thanks for the tips on beef fat and low temp. I don’t have a sous vide yet but I have an oven that can warm at 150 or 160F. I’ll have to check how low it can go.

I drink chicken bone broth warmed up. I do this to break fasts but also on days when I have especially great resistance training workouts, so that I get the added collagen and minerals. My ladies cook with the same broth and my oldest, who has had remarkable success on keto, does heat it up and drinks it in a coffee cup. I need to teach her to make the broth since she is taking my stash and drinking it. :joy:


#25

This is how my grandma made liver - lots and lots of onions sauteed in pork fat (I only use one now, because keto ;)), once nice and brown, she added liver cut in thin slices, sauteed for about 10 min or until done, plate, salt&pepper, enjoy :slight_smile:

You can also add a little paprika :slight_smile:


(Bob M) #26

I also use 133, which if you’re concerned about bacteria, will slowly kill bacteria. For instance, say you buy ground meat burgers or you make burgers from ground meat (ground by a store, not by you). If you’re concerned of bacterial contamination, you can could sous vide them for 2+ hours at 133, and this will kill a very large (99.9+%) of the bacteria. Note that’s 2 hours at that temperature, so you have to get the internal meat to that temperature, so add 30 minutes or more.

I cooked beef fat at 145 in the sous vide for 24 hours. Unfortunately, I can’t bring myself to eat it. It goes against my “whole food” philosophy.


(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #27

As part of a middle school robotic’s team project, I got some cool food safety training from someone that was a food preparation plant manager. At night, the put the fork lifts into a room that gets heated to somewhere around 120F and that kills the bacteria on the eqpt. I think they go for 12 hours+. I maybe off on the temp.

The kids and the adults all learned somethings about food safety that day.


(Bob M) #28

That is cool (or hot? :wink:).

I have lowered a lot of my temperatures for determining when meat is done. For instance, I usually cook sausages to about 165 (supposedly will kill 99.9+% of bacteria in one second), and I don’t cook chicken to the 180 that’s recommended. Now, I use a thermopen and take multiple readings, but a lot of the temperatures you see will kill bacteria but will also give you a rock to try to eat.


(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #29

I cook most of the beef but wife cooks chicken dishes. I wish she would drop the max temp. But for marital bliss I’m keeping my mouth closed for now.


(mole person) #30

I actually haven’t tried sous viding fat. My suspicion is that it wouldn’t be as good as my low/slow oven cooking method because of how the fluids express out of the meat in the sous vide. The next time I sous vide something I’ll throw a hunk of fat in as well to test.

I can perfectly understand not wanting to eat it. It’s certainly not something any of us are used to and in fact our socialization with respect to fat has left many of us with a distaste for too much meat fat.

But there is no sense in which it’s not a ‘whole food’. It’s an organ just like any other on the cow and it’s a very high fat one which helps tremendously for some of us who feel best in the 80%+ calories from fat range. It is no less a whole food than any other cut off a cow is. There is a tremendous amount of waste fat thrown out in the processing of meat, I think it’d be an easier argument to make that not eating the extra fat is not getting the whole food.

Here is a picture of yesterday’s lunch.

I added a bone broth gravy after the picture was taken. I always make sure that I have much more fat than I will want since how much I want is very variable with both the meat cut and the vagaries of my desire. I only ate one of those three fat pieces with the Osso Bucco since that cut has a lot of tendon which much like fat inturrupts my body’s lack of desire for too much lean.

The preparation method of 2+ hours in the oven at 150F leaves the fat delicious to me. I tried many other methods and found them all pretty gross, actually. But this one turns the fat so soft that it’s practically a jelly and the taste is very pure, whereas I didn’t like the flavors or texture that developed when I cooked it at higher heats. It also gets a thin crispy skin on the outside from drying in the oven’s heat and I also really like that.

My husband really likes the fat prepared this way too. I ate all of my previous attempts even though they weren’t great because I knew that my body didn’t like carnivore without the added meat fat, but my husband despised all those preparations and would not touch any of them. Now he eats way more of it than I do.


(Daisy) #31

You guys have given such great tips and I’m loving reading every reply and everyone’s point of view! Some great suggestions that I will definitely be trying!

Ok, so I have become obsessed with the strong sistas and have watched most of their carnivore vlogs this week. I tried their suggestion last night about eating the liver frozen raw like vitamins. I straight up tried the first little bite (gag), but then I did 2 more with salt and they were perfectly doable!!! I will eventually try an actual piece cooked, but for now we’re going with that!!

So I haven’t lost any weight this week and I’m trying not to be discouraged by it. I re-started this journey 2 weeks ago at my normal all time high of 155 (almost 156). Keep in mind, this is where I started keto almost 2 years ago, dropped down to 137, did very badly last thanksgiving to Christmas and gained it all back, went keto again at Christmas but have never been able to drop back below 150 since then. I eat a mostly ketogenic diet all the time for health reasons.

So fast forward back to 2 weeks ago: I lost down to 150 in the first week, but this week I’ve bounced back and forth between 150 and 151 every day. I’ve eaten a mostly carnivore diet all week, with the exception of a couple things of low carb yogurt (I had bought a bunch of them a few weeks ago and don’t want to waste them. So I’m eating a couple a week). But even though I didn’t lose any weight, I still feel good. I did a lot of bone broth the latter part of this week. The beginning of the week was a lot of overeating in general. I’m trying to scale that down. Also did some lunch meat that I’m trying not to waste and a little bit of cheese. So, I’m really just experimenting with myself to see what’s working and what isn’t. Trying to start incorporating a (tiny) bit of exercise here and there, as limited time allows. I’ve done some hula hooping and this morning I even did 21 day fix cardio! (Yeah, so I totally sat out on the burpees and mountain climbers… sorry, not sorry lol). But the point is, I’m not going to let myself get discouraged.

My plan is to tighten up my eating belt for this week (I’m still going to keep chipping at the yogurt stash, that stuff is expensive) and will probably finish up the lunch meat today before it goes bad (also expensive!!) but I feel like progress is being made so I’m ok with that!

I’m also just really doing some experiments with carnivore and with raw foods as well, getting ideas from you guys and from the Armstrong sisters.
I tried the softened chicken bones after making the bone broth. (Good at the time of coming out of the cooker, couldn’t stomach them when I tried it the next day from the fridge)
I tried the bone broth cold in gelatin form. (No, thank you. Hot and steamy for me, please!)
I tried the frozen liver (totally do-able with salt!)
I tried raw egg yolks (completely do-able!)
I already eat my steak super rare, so that’s no big deal.
I made tallow and tried the cracklings (contributed to my general overeating… oh my goodness, they were amazing!)
So, I’m feeling very adventurous in my carnivore journey this week!

My goals: get back to fasting. Ever since I went off the rails last year, I haven’t been able to properly fast again. I felt like a super hero last year when I could go 24-36 hours without eating. Now it’s hard for me to exceed 12-18 hours. So, I’d like to get back to that. I’d also REALLY like to lose 20 pounds. I don’t know if it’s possible for my body, but it’s my goal. Plus, build strength/lean muscle back up. I miss being strong!
So that was really long, but that’s ok! Thanks for all the support!


(Marianne) #32

My hair has been falling out for over a year - started before keto. I used to have incredibly thick hair. I have probably lost half my hair volume. It is so disheartening because I don’t know what to do. When I shower, there is so much hair that comes out, plus what I lose during the day/night. I find hair on all my clothes.

:cry:


(Daisy) #33

Have you recently had a child?

Before I had my kids (11 & 13 years ago), my hair was 3 times thicker than it is now. Through years of birth control, pregnancies, childbirth, bad diet pills, and probably just bad diet in general, I legit lost 2/3 of my thickness. Once I stopped the diet pills, my hair stopped falling out by the handful (about 4 years ago). Then my hair got super healthy the first time I did keto last year. But that was only for 2 months. Then after a month break, keto has never worked quite the same for me this whole year. I feel better when I eat this way, but I’m hoping going full carnivore is going to bring me back to where I was last year at this time with keto. Fingers crossed!

Good luck to you, I hope you figure out what’s causing it and get it sorted!


(Marianne) #34

Thank you so much.

I have never had children and had my tubes tied at 39. I don’t attribute my hair loss to keto and thought it would actually help, but unfortunately, it has not. I’ve been on clean keto for over 8 months now and my hair is still falling out. It’s horrible because your hair is so important, plus I don’t know how much more I will lose it before/if it stops. I should probably start taking a multivitamin (I have no idea but sometimes I wonder if I have some freaky disease like scurvy, or some vitamin deficiency because I eat very little vegetables and very little carbs.) I could try bone broth, too, but it kind of skeeves me.

I hope we both start to get our hair back!


(Daisy) #35

Don’t be afraid of bone broth, it’s just like soup broth. Just make sure it’s salted enough and it’s so warm and comforting!! Mmmm. Pork is my favorite, but I love them all.
I would maybe get some bloodwork done just to be on the safe side. I’m about a month overdue for bloodwork but I canceled my appointment because I didn’t want judged on my weight gain lol


(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #36

I haven’t tried pork yet. I make chicken bone broth and love it. Salt and for me I also grind in just a little peppercorns.


#37

Three years strict keto this month and my hair has fallen out badly the entire time, sigh. I’m hoping that carnivore changes that for the better. Hope we all see improvement in our hair.


#38

Look at that pic! Where’s the dang download button, grrrr!


(Marianne) #39

Thank you.


(Marianne) #40

:cry:

That stinks. Fingers cross for all of us.

Congratulations on your three years!!!