Carbs are necessary to burn fat?


(fubeca) #1

My cousin is a sports therapist and nutritionist who thinks Keto is “snake oil.” He can’t get over the fact that everywhere (books, etc) it says that carbs are necessary to burn fat. Go to 3:25 in the video to see what he is talking about.

Here are some of his other comments and references
-“I need to understand the TCA Cycle Intermediates and the role they play with producing ketones”


A Calorie is Not A Calorie - A Discussion of Thermodynamics
(Keto in Katy) #2

My fat burned in a ribeye, coconut oil and Kerrygold flame.

Noted.


(John) #3

He seems to be going out of his way to say that carbs are necessary, nobody should be arguing that they aren’t. For someone who is say zero carb for simplicity, the liver breaks down fat into fatty acids and glycerol. This is totally outside of the cycle he is speaking of by the way, he seems to state that the only ‘burning’ of fat is in this cycle when in fact the liver is breaking down fat all the time. The fatty acids are then broken down into ketone bodies in a process called ketogenesis. The glucose byproduct can then be utilized in the muscles or stored in the liver for further use, or if there is extra it gets converted and stored as fat. People seem to miss this fact a lot. Once this is done his process comes into play.

So, for our person who doesn’t eat carbs, they generate their own carbs needed for various functions from the breakdown of fat, which in turn loads muscles, fuels the Krebs cycle and all that. Does fat need the carbs to perform the functions he mentions? Yes. Do you have to eat those carbs? No. If fat is supplying carbs to run a process that burns fat you can just as easily back up a step and say to get the carbs for his “carbohydrate flame” you must create them by breaking down fat (or eating them).

4:50 just shows a complete lack of understanding of the science, he can regurgitate words from a book but he doesn’t understand the process. Anyone with even a little knowledge of keto knows we can create our own carbs, and that lean muscle mass is not the only option. Poor fasting folks just wasting away to sticks because they aren’t eating sugar (rolly eyes).

Sad that so many people have watched that crap.


(Doug) #4

He’s not approaching the issue from the same standpoint that many of us are - that higher insulin levels are something we truly do not want.


#5

What he needs to understand is the role of beta oxidation. Perhaps this will help. They leave that part out of most Biology 101 lesson plans.

TL;DR - It is the depletion of oxaloacetate that short-circuits the TCA cycle and generates ketones. Ingesting carbs inhibits this process, and reduces the amount of fat you metabolize.


#6

Wait, your cousin is Chris Masterjohn PhD? Or he’s using that as a reference_emphasized text_?

If you go a little further into the video, he clearly states that protein can provide the substrate needed in place of carbohhydrate. This can come from dietary protein or catabolism (or autophagy). [edit: lactate also plays a role, and keto recycles lactate more than carb burning]

[edit] I’d point your cousin to the recent podcast by Masterjohn about keto and athletes. https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2017/07/08/can-fat-fuel-athlete/

I haven’t had a chance to listen to it yet, but from the show notes I see he covers the most relevant studies out there. Just note that full keto adaptation for high-level athletes can take 6 mo to a year, so any studies at 6 weeks will not give a full picture. And those involved in highly glycolytic sports may need some pre-event carbs on race day.


(ianrobo) #7

all I would say is read the FASTER study where they through proper science proved a lot of this crap wrong.

EDIT - just noticed that this is Chris Masterjohn …

BTW just watched at 5 minutes where he said if lack of carbs will use protein, bingo … guess what happens if you exercise a lot, you eat more protein to create the carbs.

BINGO - I eat a damn slight more protein than recommended and that not used for muscle will of course be turned into carbs …

BINGO - eat 75-15-10 or even 80-15-5 on high exercise levels and protein is the fuel for fat burning. This is the problem with Vegans etc they do not EAT ENPOUGH protein and especially the great animal proteins we need !


(fubeca) #8

No he isn’t Chris, he is just referencing the video to “Prove” his point. Nice find on the podcast! THanks!


#9

You might want to show him a real world example too. Check out Ian’s progress on keto here: