I Googled John Kiefer while reading this thread, and as good as he looks, the puffy cheeks keep me thinking that he would really benefit from going full keto. Just saying.
As far as cheating goes, I too prefer the term “relapse.” I don’t dare cheat, because I would most likely end up on a spectacular binge and might never get off carbs again. Thinking past the immediate gratification of cheating to the ultimate consequences is a very helpful way of dealing with the cravings.
I went on keto and pretty quickly lost 20lb, I’m a pretty big dude. I then stalled but kept on the diet for a month and only lost about 1lb. I decided to have a cheat day and pretty heavily carbed up, the next two days I did 18 hour fasts to drop back into ketosis, only eating a Keto dinner, and lost the 3lbs of water weight I gained. The next 13 days I dropped another 8 lbs of fat. I think for some of us a carb day may actually help with our thyroid and other hormone levels. I am going to begin experimenting with carb days at different intervals with each followed by 2 day intermittent fasting. Im curious to see if that will continue to spur weight loss. I’m close to having lost 30lbs in about 3 months so I’m pretty happy. I’m charting my progress and will notate carb days to see how it effects things. I had no stomach or other negative effects from the carb day except increased energy for the last two weeks since I carbed up that one day.
The keto diet is scientific, it’s low carb on steroids. Just watch your macros, get the right amount of fat, protein and stay under 20 carbs. It’s not rocket science, ballpark figures for fat and protein, and as far under 20 net carbs that you can. Don’t count calories, try to do 6 or 8 hour intermittent fasting most of the time. Weight will come off if you keep calm and keto on.
The keto diet has been proven to extend life and prevent many ailments that may plague us as we age. At least in mice. If I relapse it’s a ‘bite’, and that’s it. Eating keto or low carb at a restaurant is a loaded gun to keto dieters as we don’t know what’s in the slaw or sauce and etc. As a truck driver with a degree in living science, my co driver wife and I make our food at home and bring it on the road. We are tired of paying for crappy food out here on the road. Sometimes we will transfer a subway sandwich into a low carb wrap, pretty good that way. Did you know subway meatballs are 0 carbs? Anyway, it’s not worth it to me to binge, but I am me, and you are you and it’s a free country, mostly.
WOW!!! I had a carb craze for about two weeks and I had the exact same issues regarding achy knees and no longer able to climb stairs. I also keep getting the night sweats. I had no idea where this was coming from. Now I know. I know your original post is like a year old, but it is still very relevant for us new keto’ers.
It is sooo strange how carb-ups work for some people but are disasters for others. The last time I did a carb-up, I lost TREMENDOUS weight once I went back to keto and fasting. Some days I lost 2-3 pounds. The most amazing part is that I have kept the weight off up to this point. I just did a two week carb-up, now I am back in EF mode. My BMR should be high as hell right now based on all of the crap and calories that I ate over the last two weeks. I will see if the weight starts to come off again as quickly as last time. But I will admit, I don’t feel good- very bloated, achy knees, night sweats. Crappy.
Well even though my previous statements were kinda harsh, I will admit I am going on an 8 day cruise at the end of May 2018. So I expect to be cheating a bit, but I accept this, just like Thanksgiving Day I know I may indulge. It is perfectly fine to have a cheat day 2 or 3 times per year according to Dr. Jason Fung, there are tools to get back into ketosis and back on track.
Two weeks is a bit long for a “carb up”. Somewhere like 1-3 days is more typical. The nature of the carbs effects how are body processes them. Potato, peas, and blueberries are different than bread, cereal, and candy. Lastly, carb ups can reallocate the macros without necessarily increasing calories.
Eating too much carbage, for too long a period of time, would make a lot of us feel crappy. But fortunately, fasting can fix it.
Well that is a stretch. But mostly the weight you’d gain is your muscles being filled with Glucose and water. That is what happens to me. I eat carbs for about six hours on a Saturday night. I gain 10 lbs. Through the week I drop 11-20 lbs from the spike in my metabolism.
Nevertheless, I do not weigh myself. Anymore. I started having eating disorder behaviors. So, I measure my waist. Because when I had ulcerative colitis, I lost 100lbs in 3 months on keto. Except I still had a gut/moobs and all my muscles disappeared.
So, what do I do now? On Saturday morning I take my tape measure and I measure my waist and other areas. Every week…every week…my waist goes down an inch. If not more. You know what goes up? Biceps, Forearms, calves, neck, and quads. Also, my strength goes up. My clothes are loser. My face is skinnier.
So, it is not a cheat to eat carbs. It is a reload of my hormones and enzymes to help my metabolism and fat loss. I have lost 35lbs in two months and gained 15 lbs of muscle.
If that is cheating…then I guess I will stick to cheating for the next four months.
Bear in mind that, while this works for some, carb-loading isn’t for everyone. Particularly those for whom carbs tend to trigger cravings or tip them into binge behavior.
Keto is certainly a big tent, and there are many variations…part of the trick is finding what works best for you individually. Given the consequences of bingeing, I would recommend caution in deliberately choosing to eat carbs, particularly for those new to keto, and/or those who find that carbs trigger cravings (a group I would consider myself in).
Sounds like disaster planning as in intentional adding a carb disaster to the schedule. I don’t understand why anyone would do that to themselves, plan to punish themselves with a day of carbage.
Best Regards,
Richard
This post resonated with me as I eat not for weight management but for gut dysbiosis and stabilization of gut health. I did try to do carb nite a while back as an experiment and I felt horrible for the following days and didn’t see any real benefits. That being said as part of my resistance training I occasionally cut fat and eat more lean meats so that is another approach that is different than pure keto. Now when I eat carby things such as a sweet potato fry I really have no palate for it- my tastes have changed- meat smells really good
Is putting on 10 lbs of water weight in a day a bad idea? Phinney and Volek had this to say when talking about refeeding syndrome (yikes!!).
“We also know that breaking nutritional ketosis with a lot of carbohydrate can cause dramatic fluid retention plus a shift of potassium, magnesium, and phosphorus into cells (all characteristics of refeeding syndrome). So when adding carbs to your intake, this is best done in moderation.”
“The specific conditions that may lead to refeeding syndrome are not well defined, but chronic dieting and definitely periods of fasting beyond a day or two are significant concerns.”
Granted, these guys are not sold on the idea of fasting, but maybe fasting combined with carb ups really is a bad combo.
https://blog.virtahealth.com/science-of-intermittent-fasting/
I am not deep in the science of refeeding syndrome, but I definitely would not refeed with carbs after a fast, if only because it’d be likely to make me feel crappy.
For the past 2 years I had cheat 1/2 day every week, in ketosis 4 days, out for 3. I have just reduced this to 1/2 day every two weeks to increase rate of weight loss. The only negatives for me are reduced rate of weight loss and a slight headache when going back into ketosis.
For me this strategy helps me stick to keto and I easy slip back into it.
Everyone is individual and this works for me.
Just a general wondering, when you guys say a carb cheat day, what does it look like in terms of net carbs intake?
Some days I have net carbs over 20 grams (more like 30/40), if I indulge in coconut butter, almond butter or macadamia nuts, that kind of thing, on top of my usual “big” (bigger than most ketoers anyway) greens. Is that considered a “cheat” day, thus stated “consequences”? Or you guys go further out, do the rice, pasta and pizza etc?
I’ve been doing carb-ups for over 15 years. Amounts depend on activity, with the Max being a full glycogen recompensation over a 36 hour period. I do those when actively weight training. On the other end is one meal, every week or so, when I just “flip my macros” and eat carbs instead of fat. A mid point would be a day or two of carbs instead of fat, such as a weekend, but not intentionally overeating in terms of calories.
One point I’d like to make is that, IMO, if you feel cruddy when transitioning back to fat, you still have some degree of metabolic derangement, as when you have a proper insulin-glucagon balance you should be able to secrete either without I’ll effects. For me, this took several years because I started out so obese.
As several have noted, you can sometimes eat carbs for a week at a time for a week or two. If you don’t overeat enough carbs to chronically recompensate glycogen, you won’t have a readaptation into lipogenesis. The issue is that your leptin resistance may creep up and lead to gradual overeating, and chronic overcompensation of glycogen.
That’s an on plan day.
Being below my goal weight, I thought I could add some select carbs back in. 8 grams worth of chocolate (3 square). Or some low sugar cheesecake as a special occasion.
Nope. No. Nix. NO. Migraines. Horrible, vomitous migraines. No weight gain, so carb consumption was below that threshold, but the pain is not even remotely worth the indulgence.
But at least I have info now that even a few grams of sugar may be what caused these incidents, beyond the usual hormonal root causes for my usual migraines.
Has anyone else experienced this extra acute sensitivity to even small amounts of sugar after months of abstaining? Migraines?
When do you get these migraines? Quickly after the sugar? A few hours after? Next day?