Carb-filled cheat day

(G. Andrew Duthie) #49

Glad it’s working for you… That likely means you have normal (or close to normal) insulin response.

It’s really important to note that for people with insulin resistance and/or T2DM, cheat days or carb ups are more likely to result in disaster.

#50

Fixed. :wink:

(roxanna) #51

I was just thinking this. Cheat days do not work this way for me and the weight stays put.

#52

Many call it cheating, I prefer the term relapsing. :smiley:

#53

I’m interested to see how the Ketogenic Forums and 2 Keto Dudes evolve. This community skews toward people interested in controlling type 2 diabetes and obesity. However, if 2 Keto LLC wants to create more content around keto they are going to have to bring more metabolically healthy people into the tent. For example, it seems like the new Keto Families show would want to talk a lot about how metabolically healthy people use keto as a tool to maintain their health.

#54

I, too, have been wondering/thinking about this, too. Very good observation, @knopfler96.

#55

I agree. I thought part of the idea of the forums was to expand the audience to allow discussions from people eating for different reasons but it hasn’t seemed to go that way yet.

(Brian) #56

knopfler96, thanks for your post!

This is something I’ve wondered about myself and appreciate your real world experience.

When I started this thing, I think I was playing with insulin resistance but it hadn’t developed into T2D yet. I wanted to do something about it before it got out of hand.

I do remember of hearing a doctor type (I know, that term gets used loosely) suggesting that for people who are insulin sensitive enough, that it can be a good thing for people to move out of ketosis at least periodically just so the body can remain adapted to burning both ketones and glucose and that requiring the body to move back and forth between the two on a regular basis made it easier for our bodies to move back and forth. Whether they were full of it, I don’t know, but your post is kinda on subject.

I don’t eat enough carbs to knock me out very often but it seems like when I do, it’s very brief and not a big deal at all. But when I do, it’s only been a single meal, at least so far. Kinda makes me feel like my worrying over it has been a bit over-dramatized. Eat a few carbs now and then and enjoy, just get back on the keto wagon afterward and, as they like to say here, keto on.

Like mentioned above, though, for a full blown T2D, that would probably NOT be a good plan, though, I do wonder whether if they stay on a keto diet with good nutrition for long enough, whether they might get to that point eventually.? (Don’t know, but something else I wondered about.)

(Doug) #57

Bellyman, interesting stuff. :slightly_smiling_face: On burning ketones or glucose, my gut feeling is that the body really does not have much of a struggle, there. While being fat-adapted may take some time, and indeed insulin resistance can be a huge hindrance, once we are burning fat, then I’ve never heard of there being any real trouble with ketones - a majority of the body’s cells are able to use ketones, and they apparently are more efficient at using them than glucose.

Even if eating no carbohydrates at all, we’ll make glucose for the cells which cannot run on ketones. This will be going on all the time while in ketosis, and it doesn’t make sense to me that switching the other cells back to glucose would be “hard” in some way - from an evolutionary standpoint, and given many of our personal histories of decade upon decade of running on carbohydrates. Just a guess on my part, and I’m just an old nut on the internet who likes talking about this stuff. :wink:

I agree - in the grand scheme of things it probably does not matter for most of us. That could be tempered by individual situations, and by the frequency of it - we are mostly talking about long-term, cumulative stuff here.

For most people, yes, I say they can certainly get to that point, though how long it takes will vary among different individuals. I’ve had one A1C test in the Type 2 diabetic range - 7.3% last April, where 6.5% or above is considered diabetic. 4 months later, it was 5.7%, right at the bottom of the range that is said to be pre-diabetic. Keto and fasting has made the difference, and I am set on getting it a good bit lower.

I think “keep calm” is a good maxim, as getting all churned-up over random “cheating” is not worth it. However, and especially for those of us who are insulin resistant, and/or have high blood sugar, there’s a ton to be said for “keeping calm” and not giving in to the carb-eating urges.

@richard has made an excellent point, here - that during the time we spend over 6.1 mmol/l or 110 mg/dl blood glucose, we are killing off the insulin-making pancreatic cells faster than they can replace themselves. I think of one week, first being strict keto, hopefully below those numbers. So all week, we’re healing. Then during another week, we cheat a time or two, let’s say we end up with one day’s time above those blood sugar numbers. Now we’ve not only given up 1/7 of the healing, we’ve been doing harm during that time, quite a net swing to the bad.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #58

I’m struggling to see how my comment serves to keep anyone out of “the tent”.

I believe that what you’ll find at KF is that on certain topics, the moderators will step in and add context to ensure that discussions that might lead astray newbies and/or people who DO have metabolic derangement have the caveats that those folks truly need.

While there isn’t deliberate outreach to the high-protein or carb-cycling communities, I don’t see anyone saying that those ideas cannot be presented here. But to the extent that the ideas presented are contrary to good health, or potentially detrimental to some subset of ketoers, I think it’s reasonable to expect some pushback.

That does not mean that the ideas or those sharing them are unwelcome. Hope that clarifies things a bit.

#59

I was just looking for somewhere to park my comment. All the admins are very respectful and encourage idea sharing across the spectrum. Thanks.

(John Lackey) #60

I read Carb Nite and The author explains what to eat, high simple carbs, low or no protein or fat (think jelly donuts) It refills the glycogen stores and reset the hormones that trigger hunger and satiety. It breaks stalls etc.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #61

I Googled John Kiefer while reading this thread, and as good as he looks, the puffy cheeks keep me thinking that he would really benefit from going full keto. Just saying.

As far as cheating goes, I too prefer the term “relapse.” I don’t dare cheat, because I would most likely end up on a spectacular binge and might never get off carbs again. Thinking past the immediate gratification of cheating to the ultimate consequences is a very helpful way of dealing with the cravings.

(Justin Miller) #62

I went on keto and pretty quickly lost 20lb, I’m a pretty big dude. I then stalled but kept on the diet for a month and only lost about 1lb. I decided to have a cheat day and pretty heavily carbed up, the next two days I did 18 hour fasts to drop back into ketosis, only eating a Keto dinner, and lost the 3lbs of water weight I gained. The next 13 days I dropped another 8 lbs of fat. I think for some of us a carb day may actually help with our thyroid and other hormone levels. I am going to begin experimenting with carb days at different intervals with each followed by 2 day intermittent fasting. Im curious to see if that will continue to spur weight loss. I’m close to having lost 30lbs in about 3 months so I’m pretty happy. I’m charting my progress and will notate carb days to see how it effects things. I had no stomach or other negative effects from the carb day except increased energy for the last two weeks since I carbed up that one day.

(Daryl G Jackson ) #63

The keto diet is scientific, it’s low carb on steroids. Just watch your macros, get the right amount of fat, protein and stay under 20 carbs. It’s not rocket science, ballpark figures for fat and protein, and as far under 20 net carbs that you can. Don’t count calories, try to do 6 or 8 hour intermittent fasting most of the time. Weight will come off if you keep calm and keto on.

(Daryl G Jackson ) #64

The keto diet has been proven to extend life and prevent many ailments that may plague us as we age. At least in mice. If I relapse it’s a ‘bite’, and that’s it. Eating keto or low carb at a restaurant is a loaded gun to keto dieters as we don’t know what’s in the slaw or sauce and etc. As a truck driver with a degree in living science, my co driver wife and I make our food at home and bring it on the road. We are tired of paying for crappy food out here on the road. Sometimes we will transfer a subway sandwich into a low carb wrap, pretty good that way. Did you know subway meatballs are 0 carbs? Anyway, it’s not worth it to me to binge, but I am me, and you are you and it’s a free country, mostly.

(Dawn) #65

WOW!!! I had a carb craze for about two weeks and I had the exact same issues regarding achy knees and no longer able to climb stairs. I also keep getting the night sweats. I had no idea where this was coming from. Now I know. I know your original post is like a year old, but it is still very relevant for us new keto’ers.

(Dawn) #66

It is sooo strange how carb-ups work for some people but are disasters for others. The last time I did a carb-up, I lost TREMENDOUS weight once I went back to keto and fasting. Some days I lost 2-3 pounds. The most amazing part is that I have kept the weight off up to this point. I just did a two week carb-up, now I am back in EF mode. My BMR should be high as hell right now based on all of the crap and calories that I ate over the last two weeks. I will see if the weight starts to come off again as quickly as last time. But I will admit, I don’t feel good- very bloated, achy knees, night sweats. Crappy.

(Daryl G Jackson ) #67

Well even though my previous statements were kinda harsh, I will admit I am going on an 8 day cruise at the end of May 2018. So I expect to be cheating a bit, but I accept this, just like Thanksgiving Day I know I may indulge. It is perfectly fine to have a cheat day 2 or 3 times per year according to Dr. Jason Fung, there are tools to get back into ketosis and back on track.

#68

Two weeks is a bit long for a “carb up”. Somewhere like 1-3 days is more typical. The nature of the carbs effects how are body processes them. Potato, peas, and blueberries are different than bread, cereal, and candy. Lastly, carb ups can reallocate the macros without necessarily increasing calories.

Eating too much carbage, for too long a period of time, would make a lot of us feel crappy. But fortunately, fasting can fix it.