Carb-filled cheat day

#21

I call that Thursday.

(Todd Aaron) #22

Iā€™m new to doing straight Keto myselfā€¦ Started on January 5th and did great until a few days ago when I fell off.
In 21 days I lost 12.6 pounds, lost 2.5 inches off my waist, went down 4.5% body fat.
I fell off the keto diet and ate carbsā€¦ then I ate more because I had already screwed it upā€¦ I had pie and cereal and basically things I had missed from going cold turkey for 3 weeksā€¦

The effects on my body were that I gained fat and water weight, and my stomach was in terrible shape and I had a lot of time to think about what I had done while I was in the bathroom the next dayā€¦ a lot of time! ugh!
Physically I felt bloated and mentally it was a failure that I took pretty hard.

I few days later when things had started getting back to normal, I weighed in and did measurements and calculations and it turned out that I had lost most of what I had gained but I had retained more lean mass. I am assuming that insulin sensitivity from 3 weeks without insulin along with trying to stay active, allowed my body to allocate as much to lean mass as possible.

I have done some reading in the past (years ago) about CKD - cycling a carb day in with a keto diet - in the context of bodybuilding, and there are people who use that strategy as a way to build lean mass while losing fat. I guess that works, but the stomach issues seem like that would be a pretty significant negativeā€¦ My opinion at this point is that the longer someone can stick with the keto diet without falling off, the easier it will be to stick to it.

I have a friend who is also doing keto and we started at the same timeā€¦ We both fell off at the same time, and she had the same issues I did, but she also has allergies (some foods as well as cat and dog allergies), and after falling off twice and eating carbs, she has experienced a skin rash (associated with cats) that she noticed she had not been having issues with while sticking to the keto diet. So something that happens while on Keto is helping her non-food allergies in some way.

#23

Funnily enough, I was just discussing this too with my best mate. She is more paleo than keto but her hubby has been trying out keto to see what impact it has on his running (runs marathons once or twice a year and runs as a hobby year round). They had both had a pretty carby Christmas and he lost the weight he had gained and feels great. BUT they have bathed decided that they want a meal or two at the weekend that is off plan. He said he just wants chips on Saturday and a piece of cake on Sunday! They like going out to a restaurant as a treat and want to have whatever they fancy.

Now, I must clarify that they are both fit and healthy. they are both slim and neither has IR or abnormal blood sugar. My friend has never liked depriving herself and has always maintained a balance of strict during the week and what she wants at the weekend. She, unlike me, can do this. She can keep her off plan stuff to very restricted frequency. Does she occasionally go a bit over like at Christmas? Yes but not for long and she always balances it out pretty smarts in the New Year. I asked her how her hubby felt re improved running and he basically has realised that the increase in improvement is not enough for him to cut his weekend treats forever.

Also, these weekend carby treats are not a massive blow out. Maybe some chips or a piece of cake but they can keep it to a portion. It works for them and means that they can make keto/paleo sustainable long term/forever. For me, that is better than deciding to abandon keto all together.

Me? No way. Cycling would lead directly to doing it more and more frequently and I would be well and truly screwed!

(Larry Lustig) #24

Depending on portion size and their ability to clear glucose quickly and efficiently itā€™s possible that theyā€™re staying within their carbohydrate tolerance.

(Stickin' with mammoth) #25

Hahahahahaha!

I wish. Weight loss has been excruciatingly, fuckingly slow with a lot of stalls that Iā€™m still decoding (some donā€™t make sense at all, others contradict each other) so I canā€™t make a damned move without paying a hefty price, pun intended. Suck it.

I have no desire to eat anything non-keto but I also cannot fast without my adrenals cominā€™ at me with pitchforks and rattlesnakes. The rattlesnakes are the worst. If I eat too much, I get an insulin response. If I eat too little, rattlesnakes.

(taps shoes together and repeats over and over ā€œThereā€™s no place like home, thereā€™s no place like home, thereā€™s no place like homeā€¦ā€)

#26

That is a very good point and I hadnā€™t thought of that. he in particular is very fit and runs almost every day so he likely blasts it out his system. It shows how it can work for some people but I would say they are very likely the minority. If everyone could maintain keto during the week and higher carbs at the weekend it would be a game changer. When I say everyone, I mean the gen pop of course not ketonians!

(David Russell) #27

I decided to have a cheat day at Christmas. It was fine, but i had trouble getting back on keto. My body craved carbs the next day. I couldnā€™t help myself and within 4 day i gained 9 lbs. I slapped myself and committed to keto again. It took me a week to lose those 9 lbs and i donā€™t think i will ever have a cheat day again.

#28

I guess it depends what you mean by cheatingā€¦

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(ketohealthclub) #29

i think it would help him to call this what it really is. I mean, he didnā€™t say he wanted a day of fruit and vegetables. He wants junk food: the sugar and chemicals that got him unhealthy in the first place. He has to make up his mind that these foods are not good for him, and he can get awesome flavor and satiety, without sugar and junk food cravings, on keto. But even if he doesnā€™t choose keto he needs to understand how unhealthy those foods are, and WHY. that may help him.

(ketohealthclub) #30

That is fascinating!

(ketohealthclub) #31

Yeah, but Keto isnā€™t an all-you-can-eat way of eating. Overeating is still a thing on keto. I donā€™t overeat pure fat- I overeat roasted chicken, cheese and my delicious rib dish. Which means I overeat protein. Which means my blood glucose goes up. We should really acknowledge this as an issue: you can overeat on keto.

(Kel Ta) #32

Tried Carb nite solution and backloading by Kiefer- didnā€™t find it that beneficial. Super lethargic the next day even with ā€œclean carbsā€ like yams and white rice. But now 3 years on keto and carbohydrates are the least interesting foodstuffs to me nowā€¦ my palate has just changed- my preference is fatty meat any day over carbsā€¦

#33

@ketana, Iā€™ve had the exact experience with CNS and CBL and keto has been the only thing that works for me.

(Kathy L) #34

Speaking of pure fat - Today I melted 2 T of butter and added 1/8 t. of cinnamon and a little stevia. OMG - was it good! It upped my ketones from 55 (yellow) - to - 66 (red) on the ketonix. That was fun! Gonna try it again![quote=ā€œBillJay, post:33, topic:6661ā€]
Iā€™ve had the exact experience with CNS and CBL
[/quote]

Sorry, what is CNS and CBL?

#35

John Kiefer developed 2 protocols for adding carbohydrates in specific cycles. The first was his Carb Night Solution (CNS) and his second was Carb Back Loading (CBL).

(needsiron) #36

A little late to the topic party ā€¦ but here are my thoughts and experiences. I TOTALLY GET the gut thing! Iā€™ve been keto since July and before then fairly low carb. Iā€™m an amateur figure bodybuilder and have celiac, allergic to chicken eggs and a plethora of other food challenges. Keto is wonderful for me except for some heartburn issues but Iā€™m coping lol ā€¦ ā€œcheatingā€ or having some carb days is abysmal. But sometimes I canā€™t learn until I do it (eating poorly) a few times. Digestive upset is REAL! I donā€™t have type 2 diabetes nor am I overweight. I use keto as my way of eating ā€¦ not a dietā€¦ I do think itā€™s important to keep diversity in food choices a main priority ā€¦ which for me is sometimes (always) challengingā€¦ lol. I was sick with the flu and when youā€™re sick you need riceā€¦ right? Ohhhh lord what hell I unleashed to my gut! Keto cycling is intriguing to me as I prep for a competition I need to get extremely lean and carbs can help fill out the muscle bellies BUT it doesnā€™t work for me. Dom Dā€™Agostino spoke to this phenomenon on a pod cast called Mind Pump and said that keto athletes store more glycogen in their muscles and that salt is what will fill them up more than carb loading. But I digressā€¦ perhaps getting really creative with baking will give you a feel for carbing without carbs and gut anger. Lol.

(A ham loving ham! - VA6KD) #37

Did having a heavy carb day actually cause the stone to move? Iā€™m wrestling with one thatā€™s been in my uterer (between the bladder and kidney) for the last four months. Iā€™m trying to avoid intervention. Part of my reason for going keto was because ive heard itā€™s kidney stone friendly.

#38

As I understand it, it can cause it to precipitate out in the first place.

(Crow T. Robot) #39

Adam Nally says this, but Iā€™ve never heard this from any other source. Iā€™d be interested to know if anyone else corroborates his opinion.

(A ham loving ham! - VA6KD) #40

My family doc says keto can cause higher likelihood of kidney stones, but canā€™tā€‹ back that statement up when I ask how it does it. Various keto info sites say the opposite. One physician I spoke to in emerg a few months ago said that coffee, spinach, cheese, can all increases the chances, but just drinking more fluids will more than negate those chances.