Can't lower insulin

(Mina Janssen) #43

How High the fat intake? It is net carbs what I do.


ok go total carbs. forget that net stuff. one step forward for a change.

next is what do you eat in a day? how are ya eating? once we know that we can tell ya how to upgrade into way more ‘good fats’ vs. just loading on fats thru some stupid crap like ‘fat bombs’ and more :slight_smile: your food can do it all for ya…

key being some small changes can bring big results but ya gotta go there and try and ‘find you’ on those changes ya make. So go total carbs only on count, then increase fat but how ya eat shows us how to do just that on real food.

edited to say…where you at? keto for years and at goal? or just that 10-20 lbs shy of where ya wanna be? or all those years you are 50 lbs still from where ya wanna be or? What your reason for needing this weightloss more after yrs of keto can show some insight onto where you ‘need to go’ to enact changes too. just sayin’

(Mina Janssen) #45

I want to loose 17 kilo. Because I want my body back and I don’t want to become diabetic so 2 reasons I want to loose the weight. The weight is because pregnancy and I had gestionel diabetis. I got stuck after I did had my children and hardly lost weight.

What I eat in a day? Afternoon 12.00: like eggs and advocado. Fish and vegetables. Or I make keto crackers with cheese and yoghurt and berries. Chicken with salade. Keto pancakes. Or grilled chicken.

Evening 18.00: some meat or fish with vegetables. Cauliflower rise with chicken. Broccoli rise with meat. Spaghetti from zucchini and tomatoes sauce. Something like that I eat.

And it is 25 total carbs I did say it wrong. I eat 2 x a day. If I get hungry I will eat a dessert after dinner in the evening. Yoghurt some nut berries.

Protein like 80 gram fat 90 gram calories 1450.


I’m going to ask the same question @lfod14 asked a week ago: are you tracking everything you eat? From the descriptions of what you’re eating you’ve provided thus far, my guess is you’re eating too many carbs, too little fat and not enough overall. The Minnesota Starvation Study fed participants 1600 calories per day, for example.

I suggest you drop all fruit and vegetables and other non fat/protein foods. Your list of what you’re eating includes lots of stuff that probably contains manycarbs you’re not counting. My bet is they’re adding up to lots more than you realize. As already mentioned by @Fangs you need to eat more fat - and my suggestion is more sat fat.

(Mina Janssen) #47

Yes I track all food with fitness pall I dont eat more then 25 carbs.

No I am sure 100% I dont eat more carbs. The food I mention is mostly whole foods. I do not eat much fat because mostly I got the suggestion that it best to keep fat low for loosing kilo. So I keep it at 60% or 65%. I can go up to what? 75%?

Same with calories I did try before more calories but I gain weight. So that is not something I will try. I can try the fat and lower the protein?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #48

A few thoughts here. First is not to fear fat. The bad effects of a high-carb diet result from the excessive blood glucose that results—and from the excessive insulin response that results from that. Fat has almost no effect on insulin, except to stimulate enough to allow us to survive (insulin is required for life; it’s only a problem when our insulin level rises too high and stays high for too long).

Secondly, all of this stuff is calculated as a percentage of calories eaten, and fat contains twice as many calories (9 cal/g) as protein and carbohydrate (4 cal/g). So 160 grams of fat will give you as many calories of energy as 360 grams of carbohydrate. So even if the percentage of calories works out the same, the quantity involved is less than half. So it’s a lot easier to eat enough fat than we often think.

Third, the idea of having to cut calories in order to lose weight is left over from the days when calories were all that scientists knew about. Now that we know how differently the body reacts to different foods, we know that the body’s hormonal response to our diet is far more important than how much food we eat. A high-carb diet puts us in fat-storage mode and leaves us constantly hungry, a low-carb, high-fat ketogenic diet puts us in fat-burning mode and allows our appetite hormones to work properly again. So eating to satisfy hunger works better on a ketogenic diet than deliberately trying to cut calories. If you don’t eat enough, your body will want to hang on to its fat store. Eat enough to satisfy your hunger, and your body will willingly start to shed excess fat.

Lastly, “weight” is not what we want to lose; what we want to lose is excess fat. You might actually find yourself putting on lean mass, and I put it to you that that is a GOOD THING. As my friend @Aqua_chonk likes to ask, “Would you rather lose 30 pounds and still look just as fat, or stay the same weight and look as though you’ve lost 30 pounds?” Think it over, then decide. If your clothes are getting looser, then no matter what your scale is telling you, you are doing keto right.

(Allie) #49

How did you increase though? Did you suddenly start eating a few hundred calories more a day, or did you increase by 50 or 100 calories each week? It has to be a gradual increase to allow your body to step up metabolism and get more efficient without gaining fat. Consistently low calories is not beneficial to longterm fat loss.

You also need to know what weight you were gaining, was it actually fat, or was it muscle because your body started repairing itself due to suddenly having the fuel it needs after way too long of being deprived?

(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #50

Not always. I am an example of someone who became insulin resistant due to medications and even with a ketogenic diet required type 2 medications to lower my A1c.

There’s no need to call someone a liar. If you don’t believe them, don’t respond.

(Omar) #51

I read once that there are people who their production of insulin is due to anomality in the brain due to accident causing some head shock or something.

This is because there have been incidents when people have normal weight but after head injury, suddenly their weight increase .

the treatment for such cases is with drugs like diazoxide (Proglycem), octreotide, glucagon and nifedipine.

Other than that I have no clue about this case.



you are ok :slight_smile: you don’t need to worry too much, what you need is a big ol’ regular RESET back to stricter keto and up your fat intake.

from what I read of how you eat, your focus is more on veg and dessert type eating, in that I am reading fish and chicken and more things like yogurt, zucc spaghetti, keto pancakes, keto crackers and cheese.

I know you aren’t eating tons of this but put that reset back to meat. Do you like ribeye steak? Do you like some bacon? Do you like a cheeseburger patty? Your chicken you are choosing, making chicken salad means you are using more chicken breast then like making a big ol’ pk. of chicken thighs and eating skin and all, so kinda think more fatty intake of your meat selection. If you do seafood, be SURE to dip in butter or pour some garlic butter over your seafood or use some good ol’ alfredo sauce over it to ‘up your fat intake’.

See you can easily up some butter intake, but it is very important you focus on ‘real meat fat’ intake…like eating some nice fattier type pork ribs and maybe using a tad of keto bbq sauce on it if you enjoy it that way.

So think this way, your menu didn’t say how much meat or fish but it states kinda heavy veg and berries kinda thing so your ‘small change flip’ to try should be going to more fatty type meats first…eat that first in your meal and eat well. That way it satisfies you more with that heavier real meat fat intake and it takes you more not wanting all that veg and stuff. So think fat increase by eating fattier meats/fish/seafood or fowl first and don’t limit to what portion size you think you should have.

Like cook up 6 chicken thighs. Eat as many as you want first. 2? 3? or ya might eat all 6? who knows :slight_smile: but they key to this change for you is to get the bigger fat intake as your first food intake. Then eat all the chicken thighs you want, til happy and content and feel good and kinda full, then think, OK do I now want some veggies or some berries for dessert?

Your menu is more of that ‘keto receipe’ type menu and alot of times that can get us off balance regarding our fat intake. Cause making ‘crackers and pancakes’ and other things like that take us from ‘just plain ol’ good fatty meats’ and we tend to dumb down the meat and fat side of our keto menu. Just happens that way when we eat more things like keto pancakes and such. But if ya make keto pancakes and enjoy them, limit them more and add in good amt of butter to them also to up your fat intake too. Not saying you can’t keep a ‘keto receipe’ type life, but a focus has to be on a bigger fatty meat intake and get that fat upped.

yea, it really can change how you eat, how your body repairs itself, how your appetite changes and upping that fat intake can really make a big difference to you.

So small changes to bigger fattier meats and butter up well some of those veg ya eat :wink: and just start thinking how to get more fat into your meals.

I think you will be ok!!! I think you need that body healing time and get more fat adapted ya know with bigger fat intake and things will start to flip around for ya.

(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #55

My point was that it’s not always a cure.


Forget percentages, it’s not about them… Grams matter, percentages are usually irrelevant.
And yes, if you want to lose fat, you shouldn’t overeat fat (well okay, you never should overeat fat… except maybe when you go crazy without having a fatty day… I badly need to go over 2-300g sometimes but I can’t afford that much normally) but you still need some, probably not even very little on keto. You shouldn’t starve - but what macros it means (or how long you can do it), that’s very individual. You only want to lose 17kg so it seems you don’t have huge amounts of excess fat to pull off very big calorie deficits even theoretically.

I can’t tell you if you eat too little but it is probably a tad low indeed. But not necessarily, it’s just too individual. I need to lose 18-20 kg myself, 1450 kcal is theoretically okay for me, my body isn’t cooperative though even on the best woe I can do so I go for 1600. But our energy need is individual and how little we can eat without problems is even more so, I suppose.
Can’t you figure out what your body wants? I can’t undereat for long as my body very clearly expresses its opinion about that… And it gives me other signs about what to eat. I still had to show it new ways (and it always loved the less carby options - at least if I did it gradually enough) but then it’s great I don’t need to track (I couldn’t even do it, I just don’t know the macros of my food, I only guess or leave the whole thing, it doesn’t help anyway as I won’t just stop eating when hungry or missing eggs).
That’s the best when you feel these things. You can’t calculate your needs…


If you did not find a way to fix your problem here are some stuff that worked for me.
If you take too much protein - your body can turn the extra protein to sugar. If you have saddle bags that’s a sign of too much protein. I reduced my protein intake to 55g/per day - and higher my carbs (healthy- only vegetables) to 50g per day. My fat are around 75g. I am on ketosis - not hungry - not starving. I lost 50lbs.
I am agree with other that your diet seems to be high in carbs. Don t replace junk food with keto junk food.
I also found smth interesting to me. If you have a hormone unbalanced your body will retain water a lot. Reduce your salt intake - drink water an hour before to eat and two to three hours after eating. If you are usually bloated… it will go away.

And the last one. Dairy can be a trigger for people. I would totally recommend to stop dairy for one/two weeks.

It sounds a lot so you can do all at once or do every step little by little. Every week you add one of the recommendation.

And something I wish someone told me in the past. If you get cheat meal get a cheat MEAL! Not a cheat day or cheat dayS. Give yourself at least 1 week of keto meal before a cheat meal and begin the cheat meal after a month of ketosis.

Good luck!


no one ‘cures’ insulin resistance or insulin issues just like you said.

they are maintained. thru food intake and thru ‘hopefully’ no other medical issues one has that can make this go out of control and what medical treatments and prescrips and more.

nothing ‘cures’ insulin issues. it is a maintenance of life on our food supply that does just that and our being health minded.

agree with you on this.

it isn’t always a ‘cure’ and should not be ‘deemed’ a cure actually from that word kinda is how I see it overall.

and right now I just realized I replied to a post from April 15 :slight_smile: I thought this post was current LOL but I agree with ya on it.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #62

I like Andreas Eenrfeldt’s analogy: Eating a ketogenic diet is like showering; if you stop doing it, you soon find that the benefits disappear.

Life is just so unfair like that. :grin:


boy, ya said it there Paul! applies to quite a few things in our lives don’t it?!! ugh but so agree!

(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #64

I was so confused at first, like wait, what did I even say??:rofl:

I DO think using diet is super helpful and can absolutely do it for a lot of folks. Unfortunately for me, I needed some help. Thanks for the reply!


yea I thought this was a more current chat I replied to :flushed:
too funny

(Kirk Wolak) #67

Something I think Dr. Fung commented on. As your liver heals, it deals with OLDER crystalized glycogen. It takes a while to break it down. So, you might be experiencing endogenous release of OLD Glycogen now that the liver is healthy enough to deal with it.

And I believe this is where some plateaus come in. The glucose starts to rise as you are doing deeper cleaning. The body is more interested in detoxing than in losing weight.

In fact, I commonly tell people if you did not add carbs, and your morning glucose is up. It could be: (Eating Late, Eating too often, Stress, Poor Sleep)… But it could ALSO be you are healing, and in a couple of weeks, it should stop, and then let you catch up. Hold the course.

I am curious what happens next for you, keep me posted. (But higher glucose endogenously is not a huge concern, especially is if is mostly in the morning, and healing seems like the most obvious cause)

(Mina Janssen) #68

Hello all,

After a while i did gave carnivore a try. I could not loose weight with keto and insulin was high 17 on average. Want let you now how it is going.

So I went on 1500/2000 metforin and carnivore, 2 meals a day, fasting like 18 hours. After 4 months I did check by bloodsugar again.

Insulin went like 10 point up above range to 27!!( range above is 25) it is creeping up never had this high measure
No real weight loss :pensive:.

There most be something wrong I don’t eat carbs why is my insulin high? Why no weight loss, I think it the insulin.

Hbac1 from 30 to 33 on carnivore
Glucose 5.7. To 5.9

Is there anybody that can advise or help? There is nothing left what I can do.

What do I eat: eggs bacon meat beef fish sardines.