Can't lower insulin

(Mina Janssen) #21

I use natural pig thyroid so t4 and t3 NDT. I am optimal in the range. Was hoping the t3 would do the trick.
I have good glucose so hbac1 4.8 just high fasting glucose. After meal 5.4 always good no problem.

I also have acanthoisis nigracans and had 2 times gestionel diabetis that is why I do worry about my insulin. Thank for your view on this.

(Bob M) #22

That “rule” about less than 5 is made up. Fasting insulin is also tricky. I’ve gotten results from 3 to 33, although most are around 10. Got 33 while my A1c had gone down. Got 33, went on vacation, ate much higher carb, got another test (only 2 weeks later), insulin went down. Down, not up. Still high, but down.

And I had gotten the 3 way before the 33.

Without insulin meters, I can’t decipher what’s going on.

I THINK the 3 was when I was fasting a ton. I think the 33 may be a backlash due to a 4.5 day fast I did before that date, though. No idea. Again, need a meter.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #23

The acanthosis nigricans should eventually clear up, I believe. A lot of the skin conditions do.

But as mentioned, an occasional test of your fasting insulin, while useful information, is not going to give you a picture of what your insulin is doing from day to day, and certainly not from hour to hour.

The best test to determine your degree of insulin resistance would be an oral glucose tolerance test, which is both expensive and time-consuming. However, there are other markers that can be used, such as HbA1C and C-peptide, as well as your HOMA-IR score. If your HbA1C and C-peptide are good, and your inflammatory markers (WBC, CRP, ferritin, etc.) are good, then you probably don’t need to worry about your insulin level.

Also, as I might have already mentioned, testing for ketones is another good way to get an idea of what insulin is doing. If your liver is producing enough ketone bodies for you to be in what we call “nutritional ketosis,” then your insulin is definitely low enough for good metabolic health. Insulin inhibits ketogenesis, so the presence of circulating ketones, say a level of serum β-hydroxybutyrate of 0.5 mmol/L or above, tells you your serum insulin is low. In fact, Ralph De Fronzo and his team have determined that around 25 μU/mL is the cutoff point. So if you have circulating ketones, then you can be sure that your insulin is lower than 25 μU/mL.

Lowering insulin is one of the major benefits of a well-formulated ketogenic diet, but the presence of ketone bodies in the blood stream is another benefit, since they not only act as fuel for the brain, heart, and other organs, but they also have highly beneficial epigenetic effects. But as I said, ketogenesis is inhibited by insulin above 25 μU/mL, so if you have circulating ketones, you are not only benefiting from their presence, you are also benefiting from low serum glucose and low serum insulin.

(Mina Janssen) #24

Ok alot to think about. Thanks!


I use natural pig thyroid so t4 and t3 NDT. I am optimal in the range. Was hoping the t3 would do the trick.

Haven’t used the natural stuff much, but dependin on the balance between the T4 and T3 you’re still relying on your T3 uptake and how much conversion is happening, where when you take straight it’s ready to go and will absolutely just incinerate the fat off of you, if your doc will give it to you. Many won’t, mine didn’t want to, so I self prescribed some :wink:

That being the case though, and 5.4 being your average after meals I really wouldn’t worry about it, to me that pushes your theory of dawn phenomenon and that you’re just catching the insulin response to that when you’re doing your insulin readings while that’s still in play.

(Bob M) #26

Only problem with HOMA-IR is that those of us who have higher morning blood sugar will have higher HOMA-IR. Always wanted to take insulin in the evening (when blood sugar is low) to counteract that, but then fasting all day naturally means you’d have lower insulin (I think).

If we ever get an insulin meter, I have a lot of tests:

  • Eat a keto meal at 7-8 pm, test morning insulin. Eat same exact meal at 5-6 pm, test morning insulin.
  • Eat high carb one day and test the next day.
  • Test, then 4.5 days fasting, test at end and daily afterwards.
  • Test before and after bodyweight workout.
  • Test before and after jogging.
  • Eat high protein and/or high carb meal at 10am, normal day, or after body weight workout, or after jogging. All three could be interesting.
  • So many more…

(Omar) #27

Is there a home kit for testing insulin?

(Allie) #28

Track grams not percentage, ideally below 20g carbs. If you have to do percentage, make it 5% not 10%.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #29

I understand there is one in development. But I have no idea how it could work, since the laboratory test involves a radioassay.


@Mina_Janssen To clarify: ‘damn phenomenon’ = ‘dawn phenomenon’. Apt description, I might add! :heart_eyes:


Hah! I swear the last couple of days my grammar checker is letting me do that to amuse itself.

(Bob M) #32

Here’s a tester:

I wonder if eating OMAD is worse than 2MAD when it comes to fasting, morning insulin?

(Mina Janssen) #33

Does that really work?

(Bob M) #34

It supposedly does. I’m not sure why they’ve kept it related to Kraft testing, though.

I was going to be a beta tester of it, but couldn’t swing the money.

Right now, it’s too expensive for just insulin testing.

(Kirk Wolak) #35

I wrote this a long time ago to help others.

I think it is worth the read. And 25g of crabs (total carbs) is 5x what I can tolerate and be in ketosis without doing Alternate Day Fasting!

(Mina Janssen) #36

You said I should not worry about insulin. But I worry because my fasting glucose went up and my insulin is still high. That combination makes me insulin resistance. Worse then before I had perfect glucose readings in the morning 4.8 . I worry I will become diabetic. This dwan phenomen / glucose adaptive sparing would be temporary but I still got it. Makes me think if keto low carb is making me sicker/diabetic.


alot of people ‘wonder and worry’



‘2 Fit Docs’ address concerns on it all :slight_smile:

(Mina Janssen) #39

Yes I know but it is what is happening. My insulin is in 16,18,20. Fasting glucose higher no weightloss. I did try much things over the years. I am using 2000 metformin a day just to see if I can reduce insulin and weight. After I upped metformin to 2000 my insulin came back at 20 fasting glucose 5.9 and no weightloss. Carbs 25 netto.

So you tell me what is wrong with me. My doctor was very surprised My insulin did not come down with metformin.


went back and read your first post @Mina_Janssen

up your fat intake way higher.

your 2 meals per day, flip to big high fat intake. recheck everything but give it at least 2 wks or so.

your 2 a day and 25 carbs is cool but it is all about what you are eating in your day. the balances.

so are ya ‘netting carbs’ or total carbs?

total carbs to 20 only and up that darn fat intake massively. bet ya see changs for sure but give it time :slight_smile:

that is my advice on how to ‘change a bit to experiment a bit’ to find you in all this.

(Mina Janssen) #42

Ok I will do that👍