Can you target visceral, subcutaneous of intramuscular fat? The effects of different diet and exercise

(Jamie Hayes) #1

This week I heard Associate Professor Stephen Boutcher talk about the effects of both diet and different kinds of exercise on the targeting of visceral, subcutaneous of intramuscular fat. Unfortunately there’s no link to this interview.

He’s the author of https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2991639/ plus a nice book (forget the name) on 8 second high intensity followed by 12 second low intensity for 20 or 30 minutes. He suggested high intensity interval training like this will target visceral fat around the waist.

There’s even music for his workout http://www.lifesprints.com/

I’d be keen for others to share any evidence for targeting different fat depots *visceral, subcutaneous of intramuscular) with different diet and/or exercise regimes.

#2

severe calorie restriction and fairly intense exercise. Its a trick i use for targeting intramuscular fat. I am cutting hard this month so I do 72 hour fasts with modest weight training for maintenance… pushups and of course long exhausting cardio. I run one hour each day. When i do my refeed I would say my protein intake is around 75% and i have never been out of Keto.

now if you just walk you wont get into intramuscular fat. Body building are horrified by this because they think they lose muscle. Its fat though.

I will say this… IT IS NOT EASY. Its very similar to bonking or trying to workout during keto initiation phases. You do adapt though. First cut i really struggled and almost passed out because i was pushing hard. For the last two weeks of cutting I have had zero problems completing my run and resistance exercises.

always remember… if it sucks the first time dont give up. Have faith in the body and its ability to adapt because if it can it will. You are literally teaching the body to operate in a different manner and it will resist pretty hard at first.

Thats my experience and take on it anyways. If it didnt work for me i would not still do it. Will it work for everyone… I think it can for the most part if your willing to push through and get out of your comfort zone. People are very habitual and its a big reason IMO that they fail in things like diet and body manipulation. I accept that I have to constantly change things up to get results. It becomes kind of a chess match with my body and mind.

will it work for most people… no. You need to be committed and accept the feeling of pushing through a wall in the beginning. For most its just too much. Its not that they cant do it… they just wont.

#3

Very interesting, David.

By the way, are you familiar with the TV show Biggest Loser?

A lot of what you are saying resonates with that TV show.

#4

i cant watch that stuff. I watch films and Old tv shows for the most part. Stuff that motivates me. I did start Person of Interest not to long ago… good show.

most of the reality TV stuff is to loud for me. I was a big fan of survivor-man and dirty jobs though. Those were great.

when I am working hard my motivation is mostly music and half ass attempts at meditation (because i have no idea what i am doing). self motivation from deep within is the only thing that has ever worked for me. All these screaming trainers would have zero effect on my psyche. Learned that in the military about myself.

I have found through the years that the magic motivator for me is someone telling me I cant do something. another is standing in front of the mirror and drawing big black circles around fat with a sharpie when I think i am hungry.

#5

What?

How does that work? Do you wash it off immediately, or walk around with black circles under your clothes?

#6

no you dont wash it off. its to remind you that you have work to do. Think of it as a sticky note.

you can also stand in the mirror with a hand held mirror and get a full view of your backside to see that stubborn back fat. Thats a downer though and most people will probably not take it to well.

#7

Ok, so let me try to understand…

You take a permanent ink black marker (sharpie) and you draw circles around your fat parts. And you don’t wash those off. So, under your clothes, you have black circles around your body.

Did I get this right?

#8

yeah. Sharpie is alcohol based so if you must take it off just use rubbing alcohol.

I actually let my kids do it most of the time. mark the fat! They write little messages in it … run longer, fat sucks, work it etc. etc. I just flex my core and tell them if they can grab it they can mark it. I let them do it when I am bulking too… tell them to draw the outline off the muscles i am working on. its a homeschool thing.

you have to find some humor in this process sometimes or you will never break the tension. i remember freaking my wife out when i showed her the dimple or squishy fat you get once you drop enough weight in keto. That was weird. You run into a lot of really strange things when mastering keto and conditioning to fasting. You also end up doing things many think are not possible. The human body constantly amazes me.

#9

David, good grief. The stories coming out of you…unbelievable.

#10

i have been self motivating for a long time.

hardest thing as you get older. Staying motivated… to eat right… to work out etc. etc. i lost it for a while and really packed on the weight for a few different reasons (pelvic shift, newborns, old, tired etc). Saw a picture of myself at 220 pounds (which there are very few of) and just made the decision… thats it, enough is enough…its all coming off. Stumbled into keto after going mostly meat and veggies for a few weeks. baffled by the rapid fat loss… ticked off at the stalls and walls. its pretty common.

best advice i got was not even really keto related really. Just general thinking. Bodybuilder told me whatever you do change it up when your not getting results and pay attention to what you best respond to. i will say that those muscle gym rats were the only guys congratulating me and telling me to keep it up. everyone else was throwing out little snarky comments… you look sick, my wife said i looked gross, aids, too skinny blah blah blah. people will get jealous and try to put things in your head to bring you down. Dont argue just ignore it and stick to the plan. I was at a friends house and he was pretty furious i would not take a bite of his homemade mac and cheese when i was 24 hrs into a 72 hour fast. I just told him it looks and smells great but I just cant eat it.

I used to joke with people and tell them i was on a meth diet LOL. when you have not seen someone in 4 months and you drop 50 lbs they are shocked.

I love it though, the whole process. as hard as it is you actually get serious results. its pretty much a spiritual journey. You learn a great deal about yourself.

#11

apologies to the OP. went way off track.

back to Intramuscular fat

#12

Do not do this if you are a T2 or have ever been or have IR problems. This is a specific mentality for a minority group and NOT good general advice for the majority.

Wow. THis is not psychologically sound behaviour IMO. Most people need kindness and compassion and encouragement. Just wow. Please don’t do this guys. Yes you might want to change but hating a part of yourself? That is not going to be good for your psych interior.

#13

It’s great that you’ve found what works for you David. Perhaps however, in your future posts you could spare a little more thought to the diverse nature of the members of this forum.

We have many who are new to Keto coming to visit us here for advice and support. Others who are grappling with the long term psychological effects of being a big person living in an a world that isn’t always tolerant of size. Some have heard of the myriad of benefits from eating a ketogenic diet and have chosen this way of eating for general health and mental well being. Some have also suffered from addictions in one form or another which is no laughing matter.

I understand that you are a keen bodybuilder and enjoy the sport immensely, hence your focus on building muscle and eliminating body fat, however, intense scrutiny of fat and body aesthetics may be quite confronting for some in this forum.

Everyone is finding their own Keto path and (those of us who are human, anyway!) will stumble and fall along the way. So we pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, keep calm and Keto on.

(Michelle) #14

Bravo @KetoKate. :clap:

(John) #15

Very interesting study, I may have to give this a go. The only fat I really have left is the spare tire area and it seems to want to stay pretty badly.
I have started cycling again and the trail I take has a lot of ups and downs so there is a lot of behavior like that listed but longer breaks and over the course of 2 hours. 20 minutes sounds better.
I don’t know V02 max but I read something the other day about Mafetone 180 formula and though it sounds BMI’ish it is probably a good starting point since I can’t figure out the actual number.

(gooeykablooey) #16

Goodness if I was going to sharpie every section that needs work I might as well drown myself in a tar pit.
Joking aside I’m really concerned the impression this is leaving with your kids if you’re teaching them to write insulting little jabs about fat on your body… I mean where does that stop? Are they taking this “fat is gross and ugly” to school? Are they at risk for developing eating disorders? As someone that grew up raised by a woman making constant remarks about my appearance I really am concerned. I was 120 lb and down to 100 cals a day most days and my mother still made comments about my arm flaps and saddle bags. Please please… body positivity with your kids. @davidvincent

#17

I don’t really get the blow back here against @davidvincent telling us what he does. He didn’t recommend it for everyone, in fact he said his methods probably won’t work for everyone.

So much for “there are no keto rules” I guess…

(John) #18

Agreed, I tried to change the subject but it didn’t work.

#19

Back on topic, this line from the linked study caught my attention:

That insulin resistance has recently been shown to primarily be located in leg muscle [62] suggests that HIIE exercise that focuses on the legs is likely to show the greatest insulin sensitivity increases.

Here is the linked study on this: Glucose clearance is higher in arm than leg muscle in type 2 diabetes
Would be interesting if focusing on leg muscles really is optimal for those with insulin resistance. Leg muscles are typically larger muscles than arm muscles too, so I can see improvements there having a major impact anyway.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #20

That would be consistent with some of the info I’ve read with respect to resistance training, particularly the focus on squats as the primary component of a resistance training workout.

Interesting read, albeit a pretty tiny sample size. Thanks for posting.