This really is like the ONLY thing I HAVEN’T tried: heavy on the seafood.
How dumb not to think of it. I can easily try it, nothing at all to lose.
I get so bored of all the meat, too.
If it works I’ll revive my accountability thread with an update 
I think I can do that. I usually don’t do it though. Maybe I’m under eating.
Bacon goes down too easy. I think I often eat 1/2 a pound at a time or throughout the day.
yea we Carns hear meat all the time.
seafood is meat but they call it seafood LOL
protein is protein!
try catfish
perch
mahi mahi
fresh tuna steaks
shrimp
scallops
crabs of all kinds
mussels
omgosh and a ton more
you follow you. it is what you want, how you want to enjoy eating and have at it 
I can’t wait BlueV to hear an update from ya!!!
not sure what the reference is to on this post from ya HH.
I do have a monster appetite but I eat as I need every single day.
I don’t play. Hungry for ribeye. I eat it. Big one.
Hungry for chicken I eat it.
Love seafood as my ‘go to change’ as required.
I just do me LOL
yea bacon goes down way to easy. I so get that.
which is why bacon is my side dish.
1/2 lb. bacon to a ribeye
bacon to my chicken I cook
I think of bacon as my go to side dish all the time. If I eat a lb. of it, I get good hold. If I eat 1/2 a lb I am wanting more food easily.
I so get this. we all have to figure out if we are eating as we need at any given time OR are we thinking ‘oh it has to be enough’ when it darn well is not.
very personal to each of us
All Carns drop over into Another Carnivore Thread in that category. We can chat all Carn and not take this thread see ya’ll there
Yeah I’m not Carn but enjoy my meat. It’s the main part of my meals and sometimes the only thing I eat at a meal, but I still eat some veggies and other non animal foods. It’s working well for me and I’m happy with the results.
I like Carrie’s recipes and I personally don’t believe carbs are evil. We’ve just been damaged by too many and by sugar consumption. Everyone’s threshold is different.
Very cool on that HH
you have your beliefs and hold true. I like that.
Real Carns have the veg is evil and takes from the body etc. so I can’t go there with ya. All good on it cause we all eat as we must and follow our own science behind it all. Best we can do!
I agree, threshold and what it takes personally to eat thru a lifetime of ‘ick out there’ is the key. I so get it!
LMAO 
(I don’t own a scale and only weigh at a certain grocer’s on rare occasions)
If you read the entire thread, I believe that you will see a nuanced picture emerge. The point is not that calories do not matter, but rather that we should not count them, because that can lead to metabolic problems.
When we eat a low-insulin (i.e., ketogenic) diet, our hunger and satiety hormones are freed up to do their jobs properly, and appetite becomes a reliable guide to how much to eat. It then becomes possible to eat to satisfy our hunger and still lose fat, because the body has mechanisms to allow excess stored fat to be metabolised, once we have cut our carb intake drastically enough to allow our serum insulin to drop low enough. (Serum insulin above a certain threshold level prevents fatty acids from leaving the fat cells for any reason.)
Intentional calorie-cutting, on the other hand, runs a very real, demonstrated risk of triggering a “famine” reflex, in which the basal metabolic rate drops to compensate for the reduced energy intake, requiring a further reduction of calories, triggering further compensation, etc. Even in the context of a low-carbohydrate (and hence, low-insulin) diet, the body will prevent fat from being mobilised until fairly late in the starvation process (see the research by George Cahill, especially his paper “Starvation in Man”).
The survivors of the Nazi concentration camps did not lose their body fat right away, just because they were put on a starvation diet by their captors. It took rather a while for that to happen. In reality, the imagery of captives with no body fat, shown in the film footage taken when the camps were liberated, shows how very far along they were in the process of starving to death. (Which is why some of them did not survive liberation, despite the Allied doctors’ best efforts.)
Exercise, despite its many beneficial effects on the human body, has been shown to be completely worthless in terms of losing excess fat.
As Dr. Jason Fung points out, the proponents of the energy-balance model of weight gain, loss, and maintenance assume that the issue is a one-compartment problem, when in reality we need a two-compartment model to deal with it successfully. The hormonal model that we promote on these forums embraces the energy-balance model and takes into account far more of the body’s mechanisms that regulate energy intake and expenditure. To my mind, this hypothesis provides a much-better-rounded picture of how the body operates than the “eat less, move more”/“a calorie is a calorie” model does.
In fact, I remember an advertising campaign during the 1970’s (before the current dietary recommendations took hold), which showed an obese family of four, with the tag line “Many of America’s most malnourished people have never missed a meal.” The small print explained that they were eating too much carbohydrate, because it was cheap, and couldn’t afford a better-balanced diet with enough meat in it.
So it is clear that, as a society, we did know the truth, before the U.S. government started feeding us lies.
You might be interested to know that the psychologist, Dr. Georgia Ede, thinks differently. She has had a fair amount of success treating anorectic and bulimic patients with a ketogenic diet.
There is even documentation of cases of schizophrenia that have been helped with a ketogenic diet.
Kevin Hall’s study of the “Biggest Loser” contestants provides some insight into what happens when people are subjected to a severe caloric deficit, as do Ancel Keys’s Minnesota Starvation Study (in which participants were put on a 1500-calorie diet), and George Cahill’s research (reported in his seminal paper, “Starvation in Man,” and many other scholarly articles).
Protein, or strictly speaking, amino acids, can indeed be metabolised for fuel, but there is an excessive energy cost to protein metabolism, when it is compared with glucose and fatty-acid metabolism. The result is that the body prefers to use the metabolic pathways that produce the most ATP for the least energy cost, but it has the protein/amino-acid pathway in reserve for when times get tough.
You are right to raise the question, however, since our protein intake is mostly used for (1) building bone, muscle, and other tissues, (2) maintaining our nitrogen balance (there is a slow, but inevitable ongoing loss of nitrogen that must be replaced), and (3) the process of gluconeogenesis, which feeds our red blood cells and other organs that cannot metabolise fatty acids or ketone bodies. It is not normally used to fuel the body’s activities.
@PaulL Yeah, I was referring mostly to the people who claim they have permanently broken satiety signals and no off switch for food. At a certain point it seems like the visual of food for two would be a warning signal that you might have over eating in the next half hour. Maybe no self control isn’t an eating disorder in the proper sense of the word. Some people just don’t seem to make the distinction between “I’ve had enough now” and “There’s still four yummy chicken legs from the grill and I have room.” That’s more what I was referring to.
OTOH, if someone claims they are on keto and gaining weight, I think the most likely answer is that they are eating too much (i.e. “too many calories”).
Yes. But if someone’s BMR is reduced by 30%, is that an inherently bad thing? To me, the definition of BMR is “calories needed to keep the body functioning at rest”. If something is deteriorating because there are insufficient calories to keep the body functioning, then that is below BMR.
That would have been me on a carb-heavy diet. One of the saving graces of a keto diet. I’m no longer ravenously hungry all the time.
Paul, I love your post in general, but the above is just not necessarily true (though it can be true if you have lousy food and exercise choices). Phinney and Voley did a good study on exercise and found increased fat loss in both LC and HC folks but I think it was more pronounced in LC.
It depends on the exercise, the context, the person (of course) but a well-formulated movement plan has a profound influence on all of those hormones that we talk about so much in relation to ketogenic eating. Good-quality exercise - like a good quality ketogenic diet - helps with fat loss because of the hormone regulation.
I wouldn’t bother to chime in but I’m concerned that this is repeated so much on this forum and that it’s not useful. I don’t mean that everyone should be running marathons (heaven forbid ) but we are blessed with bodies that have every expectation of many kinds of daily movement, and exercise helps with everything from sleep and circadian rhythms to leptin and insulin sensitivity, all of which are important for good body composition. Just like eating junk messes with us because it’s unprecedented in human history, being sedentary messes with us because it’s unprecedented in human history.
[Can you exercise and still have extra fat? yes, of course. I hope it goes without saying on this forum that running 5 miles in hopes of burning x calories while not fat adapted is probably going to increase your hunger and not do anything for fat loss. We know this from a lot of studies and from millions of frustrated dieters - but that doesn’t mean that exercise doesn’t help with fat loss.]
My question was a rhetorical question because it seems like people believe they are eating more fat to loose fat while in reality they are eating more protein to increase metabolism instead of simply increasing physical activity by going for a long walk.
This is why I believe from experience that it’s not possible to maintain a ketogenic metabolism by eating more than once a day.
Nitrogen balance and lipolysis is maintained with growth hormone. We know that not eating increases growth hormone while the opposite is true when we keep eating throughout the day. Intake of fat does increase insulin and insulin inhibits growth hormone release.
Exercise increases growth hormone. Not useless afterall.
Eating is overrated.
