Can we please stop repeating the “You have to eat at a deficit to lose weight on KETO” lie?

(Jane) #470

Yep. Sugar in 4 lb bags instead of 5. Bacon in 12 oz packages instead of a pound. Coffee also.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #471

@Fangs It is what it is. If you’re eating a balance of ketogenic macros percentages then kcals would roughly indicate the amount of food and the measurement is more accurate. Deviate from those macros and the measurement become less accurate.

Trying to calculate caloric needs on a daily basis is ridiculously inaccurate and not possible since daily needs vary. Over time with an average the numbers might mean more.

Part of the reason that the calorie mentality still exists is leftover from a dumbed down method of weight loss built on the CICO oversimplification of how weight loss works. Calories are how people think of food when trying to lose weight still even when they come to keto when where the calories come from is far more important than their amount.

I have begun a new phase of Lazy KETO again like I did during my first 6 months now that I am in a maintenance weight zone except I am not even counting carbs anymore. My habits have changed and I naturally make low carb choices so I’m going free style now and see if I can rely totally on hormonal regulation of my food intake. So far I am holding my weight within a 1-2 lbs range up and down which I feel is normal.

:cowboy_hat_face:

#472

thanks David, very informative.

appreciate the reply.

(Jane) #473

Well we get energy from food and calories is the only measure we have of the energy value of what we eat. The fact that we don’t break it down and use the energy the same as they measure calories makes the formulas “off”. And then there is the insulin response, your metabolism ramping up and down. Lots of variables and the only thing we really can control is what we eat, when we eat it and how active we are. Our bodies don’t all respond the same way to the same foods as everyone else.

And nobody is saying you don’t lose weight restricting calories. We all have. And been hungry all the time, miserable and eventually gain it back. With friends since you’ve lowered your metabolism. A vicious cycle.

#474

Is Protein even calorie that can be burned as fuel?

Maybe it would be best to focus on not eating too much isolated fat relative to protein. Not sure what the ideal ratio is but I know when we eat enough protein… We’re able to produce sufficient neurotransmitters which then drive metabolism. This is why those of us who exercise… Have higher levels of neurotransmitters and hence a higher metabolism.

(PJ) #475

Well, I can eat 8000 calories a day in pizza and Taco Bell without blinking, but I struggle to get at least 2200 calories a day on keto while eating beef chili con carne and pork chili verde and chicken red curry and bacon and eggs. Different foods are not only differently filling and satiating, but eating real nutrients regularly tamps down that chronic fire of must-eat that malnourishment breeds.

There is no way to accurately track calories in detail, because how the body internally handles food, and different kinds, and the detail of the body in question, makes it at best a ‘generality.’

I think it’s good if people work on eating nutritious food until they feel good, because most people come out of decades of malnourishment thanks to our food supply. But then, if they are not automatically losing fat with that approach (many do, especially men and very oversized folks), they could look at controlling calories or better yet, look at a bit of fasting.

Doesn’t hurt to experiment with a range of things.

#476

Umm. That’s the very subject of the thread… ?

(Jane) #477

I know! :rofl:

(Full Metal KETO AF) #478

You can lose by restricting, to a point when your metabolism bottoms out and you end up with ravenous hunger. You know what comes next…

And the thread is about the ”have to restrict” aspect. There are better ways. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Bunny) #479

If any thing has to come to eating to a deficit it would be dietary fat increase in contrast to the carbohydrate increase while keeping protein the same in calories?

The Shangri-La Diet looks filling…lol

Probably burning some serious ketones eating fat 1 hour before you eat, wonder if the author realized that? He had the right idea?

If you think about it, eating carbohydrates after eating a bunch of fat; that the ketone build up would be immense and would drop precipitously after the carbs were eaten, then the ketones would start climbing again? It would probably engage insulin but it would be so brief that it would not have chance to do much?

[1] “…The Shangri-La Diet is both the name of a book by the psychologist Seth Roberts, a professor at Tsinghua University and professor emeritus at UC Berkeley, and the name of the diet that the book advocates. Published in 2006 the book discusses consuming 100–400 calories per day in a flavorless food such as extra light olive oil one hour outside of mealtimes as a method of appetite suppression leading to weight loss …” …More

[2] “…Roberts argued that weight is controlled by maintaining body fat at a certain amount, referred to as a “set point.” When weight is above the set point, appetite decreases, and it takes less food to feel full. When weight is below the set point, appetite increases, and it takes more food to feel full.[16] He further stated that eating strongly flavored foods (like soda or donuts) can raise the set point, whereas flavorless foods (like sugar water, canola oil, extra light olive oil) can lower the set point.[17] These flavorless foods must be consumed in a “flavorless window,” at least one hour after and one hour before consuming flavors. Consumption of 100-400 flavorless calories per day lowers the set point, and therefore, lowers weight. …” “… The diet has been endorsed or mentioned by Tyler Cowen, Stephen Dubner, Tim Ferriss, Tucker Max and Wired Magazine writer Gary Wolf.[2][18][19][20][21] It was criticized by UCLA nutritionist Dr. John Ford.[22] …” …More

#480

for me I count my food by the lb.

I eat a 1 lb. ribeye
then I eat a 1 lb. of bacon
then I eat 1/2 lb of my 1 lb. meatloaf I made
a lb. of boiled shrimp and more…LOL

(hottie turned hag) #481

HA! Me! :smiley:

I can easily and do eat an entire pound of bacon or steak at a sitting, no problem.

(I’m a 115lb sedentary postmenopausal female stalled at 115 after 2+yr keto and several months “almost-carn”).

#482

Hi BlueV…115 is lighter so I would think you are at goal…this is where you want to be? just wondering.

Nice thing with carnivore you will appear thinner. Once carbs are gone the fluff of the body is gone also. You know that ‘thinner but fluffy’ look some people sport…on no carbs, the body trims to true lean. The fluff disappears. So even though you don’t lose any lbs, you sure look like you lost more and you can easily drop a size just from this wonderful non-fluffy carby junky body we lose when ya do Carnivore–so that is always a great thing :slight_smile:

Yea I get so tickled saying I ate a lb. of bacon this morning and those who don’t know me just freak, deer in headlights look from that comment…I love it!

and the restaurant doesn’t know it but never let me in on an ‘all you can eat’ breakfast buffet…I don’t do waffles or fruit or cheap junk to fill up, I hit the meat. Tons of bacon and sausage and I can inhale a lot very fast HA They take a loss on my check!

(hottie turned hag) #483

For my frame I ought to be closer to 100-105. I’m short and small boned.

#484

well heading into Carn will get ya there :slight_smile: I wish you nothing but the best results!!

(hottie turned hag) #485

But no, it hasn’t! I’m pissed.

I went pretty strict carn (not as strict as say, Ilana Rose who eats just beef and salt and beef fat) for around…3mos? Broke the stall, I went quickly from 122 to 116.
AND STAYED THERE.

Added back in some limited veg (cabbage, peppers, but not daily), still stuck!

I kinda think it IS too many cals in my case, that’s why I always check out threads about cals lol.

#486

Kcals mean nothing. The Dr. Ken Berry video on why calories are stupid works well in telling the truth on that. (well I sure get it :))

Thing is on Carnivore it is meat and fat.

Now think how does one feel better in that a big chunk of ribeye has all the needed fat you need yet people put in extra butter. Not needed.

If you eat a skinless bonless chicken breast which is very lean, yea add some butter for cooking.

Veg will not help.

what ya do…and this is me…on ANY STALL on Carnivore and ‘we really shouldn’t think this way but we do HAHA like everyone else’ is we go to seafood.

seafood is wonderful…tons of protein for a ton of food and low in kcals (but not necessary to truly think that) and we add a bit of good fat like butter for dipping or alfredo sauce for dipping which I use a lot………and we eat like kings and queens for a great bang for our buck.

so if you want more forced situations with your body then heading into seafood is fab. Not all the time, ya gotta throw in some good dense meats in there also LOL

maybe some of that will help you find a way??? take what ya want from it and go from there.

also remember with time and commitment changes happen down the road…we never can truly control the body but holding plan dead on in what you adopted as your plan is important. Carnivore plan…then go all the way baby and forget the veg and work from here.

(Bunny) #487

One thing it is very filling, I eat a tiny piece of ribeye and I feel so full I can barely stand it…lol

Feels like my tummy is going to burst!

(hottie turned hag) #488

Yeah I never add extra fat, not into that at all.

I adore fish, hadn’t even thought of it though as it’s something I always ate out, not made at home much except salmon salad.

I really think I eat too much now that I’m so small and my energy output so low. I walk 2h/day with the dog and sit on ass rest of the time.

I used to be great at fasting but at this size it’s way harder to do.

I could just eat less and shaddup, right? :grimacing:
#stopyabitchin

#489

heck no you don’t have to eat less and shut up HAHA

your true space might be your fish. Wonderful protein, full of great extras we need.

Girl you best get a fish and seafood cookbook and learn how to do it at home. If you adore it why in the heck isn’t it a staple in your kitchen?

We must all eat as we desire. Love what we eat…you go off to the store and fire your butt up with fish and more. It might suit your body well more than a big old hunk of red meat.

We Carns do as we must. Some won’t touch chicken, other’s thrive on it. Some hate seafood and go red meat type only.

Do for you and what it takes. I bet if you eat as you truly want…forget the added fat, the pretending what it takes to lose lbs in our mind and go by ‘what the heck do I want to eat today’ you will find you are in that sweet spot you need for you. Not a darn thing wrong with that.

I know the sit on your butt. We early retired and waiting on our freshman kid to graduate in 4 yrs and then we are all college for her and settle her up and then we have our free time…but in the meantime I seem to sit a lot now but am losing lbs easily cause I eat for me and not against me.

Carn is protein and fat needed to survive. Eat as you need to eat at all times. It gives results but sometimes slower obviously when it is the ‘last dreaded 5-10 we have to lose’ and never forget…….your eyes in the mirror will never equal in any way what your body thinks you are at your healthiest so…just take that with a grain of salt! We all have to realist ya know.

When are we healthy? Feel fab? Love life? Got brain clarity thru our eating, the fog has lifted, want more out of life and must put effort in to go find it? You might be there and it just hasn’t registered yet.

Long post again, I love this chat…just take what might work and I hope some of it does for you