Can ordinary people read actual health study data?


(Brian) #1

I poke through YouTube quite a lot. Cat videos, never. But a couple of days ago, I was listening to Dr. Michael Greger. He went through a whole list of studies, mostly about how vegetarians don’t have any advantage in mortality with the most common diseases among us and actually have a higher mortality rate with neurological diseases, including Alzheimer’s. Yikes.

He rattles off details very authoritatively. He waves papers around implying actual studies.

But when I get on the internet actually looking for said studies, I seem to come up way short. I find plenty of “articles” that seem to summarize what they think this study or that study says, but I also find that they often don’t give enough information to actually go find and look at the data they used to come to said conclusions.

When I specifically went looking for Dr. Greger’s mentioned studies, I couldn’t find any of them. It’s entirely possible I didn’t look in the right place.

Unfortunately, it seems like people manipulate “data” to make studies say whatever they want them to say. And so, I wondered whether a person can actually go look at these “studies” up close and personal, look at the actual data, and draw conclusions based upon that, rather than what someone -wants- the data to say.

Honestly, I don’t care whether vegetarians live longer than meat eaters or not. But one group says they do and mentions a study or two, and the other group says they do not and mentions a study or two. I get a little irritated at people who cite an article somewhere and wear it on their shirt sleeve as though they’re better than anyone else. I ran into such a person a few days ago and when I suggested that maybe things aren’t as they’ve always heard, they immediately wanted to know what study I drew my conclusions from. And so far, I can’t find the actual study. AARRGGHH!!! It always seems to turn into a “he said, she said”. I’d sure like to do better.

Anybody?


(John) #2

Not really, most of the data is not made available. But that said, there are many fewer well conducted studies out there than you would think. They often take dozens of studies, exclude ones they don’t like for some reason, and do meta studies so a lot of what you see is just an re-interpretation of studies that were done long ago and most likely for some other purpose entirely. As someone who does statistics i’m very leery of most results, I can build legitimate models that can come to whatever conclusions I want if used improperly, and most are used improperly; many fields just run tools and packages on data without knowing what it is really doing and coming to erroneous conclusions.

This means a group of vegetarians, or statin manufacturers can fund studies and only release the ones that have some findings that support them, dubious statistics or not, so people will always have some way to legitimatize any study and attack any other. .


(Brian) #3

Thanks for your reply. It’s kinda sad that the actual studies aren’t more available to the public. At least we could see some of this stuff for ourselves. Maybe they don’t want us doing that…

It does leave us in an awkward spot, though, and puts us into more of a position of picking our experts knowing full well that other, sometimes well meaning people, will consider our experts to be quacks and theirs to be genius personified but without much hard data to back up our pick. Mostly, I suppose that leaves anecdotal evidence.

As for myself, I’ve tried being a vegetarian, I’ve even tried being a vegan, and I’ve tried very hard to be healthy using a McDougall type diet. Whether I failed or it failed, doesn’t matter. I didn’t get very healthy and I somehow managed to end up at 285 pounds. (I’m 5’ 9-1/2".) So a non-vegetarian keto type diet is where I am finding some success. Maybe McDougall works for some people. Didn’t work for me.

I am still puzzled how feeding people fruit and starches can give a positive outcome when (another statistic I can’t find an actual study to quote) somewhere around half of the population has at least some insulin resistance, T2D or even T1D. The two just don’t seem to mix well.

Thanks again for the reply!


(John) #4

Significant reduction of calories which is unsustainable. Nutrisystem for example is 1,200-1,500 a day, if you just eat that almost anyone would lose weight. You also would mess up your metabolism and gain all that back and then some when you went off.

I always used to wonder about those interviews with the oldest person or people over 100, they always involved eating crisco or bacon or the like every single day. I kind of laughed it off because it didn’t jibe with what the ‘science’ said, but now I think they were on to something.

I have tried many diets and this is the only one that has worked. I have been on it over a year, reached my goal long ago, and I didn’t have to pay a company money to do it.


(A ham loving ham! - VA6KD) #5

Google Scholar is a good place to find some articles: https://scholar.google.com

Lots of peer reviewed articles there (but peer reviewed doesn’t necessarily make it correct). Just type in “nutritional ketosis” and watch the articles fly by!


(Mark Rhodes) #6

EBSCHO Host is a database of this type of papers. Also contact your public library or if possible see if you can use a college or university terminal in their library. Wisconsin offers the public use at a nominal fee otherwise these are for fee servers.


(Todd Allen) #7

It’s pretty easy to get the abstracts for most papers through resources like google scholar and pubmed. You can get many if not most of the full papers through sci-hub. Another good resource for medical texts is Library Genesis.


(Sjur Gjøstein Karevoll) #8

This podcast does a good of explaining both how to read papers and where to get them.


(Brian) #9

Thank you all for the input! I appreciate the insights. It’ll take me a while but I’ll start poking around and see what I can discover. :slight_smile: