I am curious about the discussion regarding protein with @richard on the latest break nutrition podcast. I’ve been doing zero carb for about a month now, and the consensus within that community is that there is no need to worry about “too much” protein when eating only animal foods. What are your thoughts about this? If eating a diet of mostly fatty meat should we worry about the negative health consequences of excess protein described in the show?
Break nutrition podcast questions!
fatpants
(Andrew)
#2
Your liver makes carbs out of “extra” protein. I can’t eat but 60g and I weigh 244. My bg goes to 130.
I can eat pounds of green stuff and not affect my bg. 2 steaks is pushing it for me. I can only do that one day in a row.
I have metabolic disease so just measure your ketones/bg and see what you can get away with. If your healthy its totally fine. If you are trying to fix your IR then I cant see it working. Certainly it doesn’t for me.
Emacfarland
(Erin Macfarland )
#3
I’m not IR at all, I don’t know how much protein I have been eating, maybe upwards of 200 grams some days, I’m 5’7” about 140 lbs and active including weight lifting. Also eat plenty of fat. Gluconeogenisis is not supply driven, as is my understanding, I’ve posted several links to articles discussing this. I don’t measure ketones. I’m just wondering how I’d know if I am indeed eating “too much” protein when following an all animal foods diet.
Chris_W
(Crow T. Robot)
#4
I know you asked @richard , and if he has anything to say on this topic, I’m sure we’d all find it interesting. However, I share your skepticism regarding over-consumption of protein on a carnivore diet. Maybe it’s a problem for a plain keto diet (and possibly only for those who are still struggling with IR), but for carnivores, it rarely seems to be a problem. Maybe carnivory is curing the IR if it exists in the person?
Emacfarland
(Erin Macfarland )
#5
I like anyone’s thoughts about this…I think you are on to something. I’m not eating 300 grams of whey protein, I’m eating protein from real food sources, I eat when I’m hungry, and don’t when I’m not. It seem like my body would regulate things pretty well?
siobhan
(Siobhan)
#6
Likewise agree that when eating whole food (specifically meat) you self regulate pretty well. I think for protein issues, it is likely people with diabetes that need to watch out for it, people who are insulin sensitive would have fewer/no issues.
Also ZC for two months, I’m eating way more protein (between 1.5-2.3g/kg of lean mass) but have only lost weight. But I reversed my situation pretty young in regards to IR/diabetes (didn’t even count as prediabetic as far as I’m aware but was trending towards it) which would obviously be different for someone who has been full fledged diabetic for 20+ years.
Emacfarland
(Erin Macfarland )
#7
I think I get hung up on the protein thing coming from having done keto for so long and being concerned about making sure I was eating a “moderate” amount. When I’ve eaten a pound and a half of steak and still feel hungry, I start to get nervous because on keto that amount of meat would not be considered “moderate.” Then there are the keto advocates who think by eating protein, and raising mTOR, we will surely get cancer and other illnesses. So is understandable why there’s so much confusion around this issue. I also freak out if I’m craving leaner cuts of steak. Lately the fattier cuts like rib eye are not as appealing to me, and I panic that eating leaner cuts will increase my protein further and cause all sorts of issues. Ugh.
richard
(Richard Morris)
#8
People who are IR do appear to have less leeway. When we make insulin we make a lot for a long time - and more insulin => more insulin resistance => more insulin. For us the point of a ketogenic diet is to reduce insulin.
For people who eat close to zero carbs, they will need to use a little more protein to make a little more glucose (because they aren’t eating the 20g of someone on an omnivorous ketogenic diet), so they can get away with slightly higher amounts.
As for appetite, if you eat protein with fat in roughly 50:50 ratio by volume (so twice as many calories from fat as from protein) and that is all you eat then you will apparently hit a satiation point quicker than someone eating just one or the other in greater concentration. I think practically that means eat bacon or steaks with the fat left on and you won’t run into problems.
If you are trying to eat beyond satiation either by loading up on fat or on protein then you may run into problems. If you overeat fat you will store more energy. If you overeat protein you may become nauseous as nitrogen compounds accumulate. If you push past the nausea then diarrhea, headaches, incredible hunger, confusion, coma and eventually death in extreme cases of ammonia intoxication.
I’m not sure that real foods or animal sources of protein are necessarily a protection against over consuming protein. If you eat nothing but rabbit, kangaroo, or other lean animals you could still experience “rabbit starvation”.
But I suspect that the nausea is a natural limiting step. If you start to get nauseous but still haven’t reached satiation try increasing fat in your diet.
Val5
(Valerie Hughes)
#9
Richard just listened to episode 34 of Break Nutrition -Metabolic Syndrome series Chapter one - with link to McAuley -Calculate your risk of insulin resistance. found this interesting because here in Canada would be easier to talk Doctors into ordering a single fasting insulin than a 3 hour insulin test. Could you comment on this index?
richard
(Richard Morris)
#10