I’ve just finished reading the Obesity Code.
@Brenda In the Obesity Code in Appendix B Dr Fung says:
"Don’t binge: After fasting pretend it never happened. Eat normally as if it never happened. "
I’ve read here and I think Megan Ramos has said in podcasts to feast the day you break the fast.
I’m going to start my 2nd slightly EF today after lunch. My only other EF was 42 hours. I hope to take this to 48 or more.
Thanks for your guidance.
Feast to us simply means eating moderate protein low carb and fat to satiety. What Dr Fung means is don’t eat a larger than normal meal or binge.
We really mean eat fat to satiety and we don’t want you to eat one meal a day for extended periods and we want you to refeed well between extended fasts. All of these things keep our metabolism running high, otherwise you’re calorie restricting and you will stop losing weight. Also it’s best to eat two good meals between extended fasts. This keeps your metabolism running high.
Another good book is The Complete Guide to Fasting also written by Dr. Fung.
Looks like I repeated myself. I just woke up. But hey, repetition helps some people learn. I know it helps me. LOL
It typically takes more food for me to get to satiety after fasting. But my satiety signals are still not activated all the time. They have gotten better with IF/OMAD and I expect EF to help with that also.
I don’t so that is good.
Yes will do.
I read that book first. Just trying to zero in on the proper feeding and fasting behavior.
Thanks Brenda.
Personally, I just eat to satiety, though I eat a higher protein, lower fat diet. Fat is not satiating for me. If I go multiple days, I’ll eat something smaller at first (say, two eggs), then a normal meal.
I have been in this boat.
Several of my earlier EFs (3 to 5 days) were broken by too-lenthgy feasts that, after another week of regular keto, made essentially no difference on the scale (after being several pounds down on the last day of the fast - very upsetting).
Because of that, I started to take the refeed period as being just as important as the actual fasting period. Essentially, my view became - “you’ve made the investment, you need to make sure you keep it”.
So, now I think of a 5-day fast as at least 10 days of “work” (extra dietary vigilance) instead of just 5 days of avoiding food.
Another trick I learned is to not break the fast when you are hungry.
For many people, including myself for my early fasts, this is at the end of day 2 (48 hours).
If you have not already read about it, you are in for a surprise, your hunger (usually) goes way down after some hunger hump that appears around that time for most people.
Once past that hump - you feel like you can go on forever.
Then, I break my fast when I am not hungry at a time that is convenient.
(So, picking 48 hours may not be best, picking the first time you don’t feel hungry after 48 hours might avoid, or at least reduce, over-feasting).
I find this is the case with me also. I usually have a ramp up of hunger between 24 and 36 hours. Then just a little bit of hunger until 48 - after that no hunger - just an “empty” feeling, which I enjoy.
I have to say the magical “I’m not hungry anymore” has never hit me, and I’ve done about 10 4.5-5.5 day fasts. It admittedly gets better, but at no point did hunger completely disappear. For instance, on Thursday evening about 4 days into one fast, I got so freaking hungry, absolutely famished. I made it, because it was already night and I just had to go to sleep, until the next day, but it took all I could do to not eat. What I find is there are waves of hunger, even into 3, 4 days. And I find if you mentally break, you break.
Agree, Bob. Waves of hunger is exactly what they are - I think much of it is rising and falling levels of ghrelin.
Here too, fasting got better, overall, the more I did it, but there is always a “pressure” - I figure it’s a mix of physical and mental stuff. Gone as long as 10 days, and every single time I’ve “broken,” in the end.
I don’t think I’ve ever really gotten to what I conceive of as true hunger. So much is psychological - always feel some ‘lack,’ but also don’t think I’ve ever gotten all the way.
I just wanted to point out that I too feel waves of hunger. All hunger does not go away indefinitely around the 48 hour mark (an amount that changes with your fasting experience - at least it did to me).
Unfortunately - no “magic” (I wish).
I still have waves of hunger but, when they are around my hunger hump (which, as @OldDoug, wrote - is much more psychological for me now) they are a strong pull that takes real effort to get over (yes - I’ve caved and actually driven to the supermarket after 9 PM, finally finishing a meal way past my bed time).
But, the waves that happen after the hunger hump are much more tolerable. You realize the wave is there but, you think about having to do the dishes afterward and figure - not worth the effort.
Thanks to everyone for the insights. This is very, very, helpful. I’m going to try for 66 hours. That takes me to Sat breakfast.
Coming up on hour 76 of a planned 72+ hour fast so I have successfully weathered some nightly humps that come around my regular feeding periods — 6 to 8 pm.
Longest I have gone is 117 hours or right at 5 days. Most of my EFs end near the end of Day 4 when I break to the “that’s long enough” argument my mind comes up with. Or, social obligations.
Eric, if you can make it to hour 66 then 72 will be easy.
However, then in kicks the mental discipline over both psychological and physical demands. When we were humping up the mountains on a long patrol in Vietnam, we used the mantra of one step at a time, each step is a victory. So does each hour make for a small victory on a fast.
Of course, now if you’re feeling sick or poorly then all bets are off. Eat sensibly. And that’s a tough one for me sometimes — eating “sensibly” after a long fast.
I think what I hate the most about ending long fasts is that I’m ending a lot of hard work that I invested in such an accomplishment.
I’ll break this one no later than 66 hrs. I have a friend coming over to smoke some cheese with me and my oldest daughter so social obligations. We will be sampling cheese we smoked 14 months ago. Aging nicely.
Sleep well last night, really well. But I just started at lunch yesterday. I even sat with my family when they ate dinner. I’m promised my wife if I feel ill I will stop as well.
Thanks for your help.
I treat meals like this. If it’s 36 hours or so, I have a normal meal. Today, I made it 36 hours, and went to the gym this morning. I’ll have a meal of 4 eggs, ham, fresh salsa, and grated cheese.
The longer I fast, the smaller the initial meal. If I fast 4.5 days for instance, the last time I did this, I had some chicken broth/stock/bone broth (whatever the heck you want to call it, it’s really stock though) and two pickled eggs. Then I ate a normal meal sometime later.
I do think fasting gets easier with the longer the fast. However, if you listen to Dr. Fung, he makes it sound like it’s easy after the second day. I haven’t found that to be true. It definitely helps if you control your environment for only yourself. If you’re making breakfast, lunch and dinner for kids, if you’re sitting down to a meal with the family where your meal is water, if a coworker makes something that smells good, it’s much harder. This is also the reason I’ve never made it over a weekend. I’d rather eat with the family than fast over a weekend.
Same here for EF. I do skip breakfast and sometimes do OMAD on the weekend but tht one meal is dinner with the family. Being social is important to us.
Me, too. I don’t fast when I am home on the weekend because I am gone so much traveling for my job that I want to enjoy my meals at home with my husband. When I was home for 3 week straight over the holidays we did a couple of 36-hr fasts together and I am fine with that. He can’t go more than that so if I want to do EF I do them when I am away from home on business.
It’s the only reason I’ve never done a Zorn fast as much as I would like to join in with that great group - it’s always over a weekend and my family time is more important to me.
So wife wanted to eat out at the mostly only place we eat out now. A tex-mex place. So I made it to 53.5 hours, my longest yet. Realized the last couple of hours of fast that hunger is 90% mental. Carne-asada is one of my favorites. So that made me hungry knowing that I would have steak soon.
This fast was easier than the last and today I had more mental clarity then the day before.
I broke the fast with less than an oz of macadamia nuts, some olives and live culture sauerkraut. Very full after steak and 1/2 of the serving of refried beans. I did not over eat.
Scale weight was 214.6lbs right before breaking the fast and was 221.8 on Tuesday. Seems like excessive fluid loss. I did stay hydrated but cut back a lot on coffee to 1 1/2 cup a day. Typically I drink 6+ cups of coffee a day. Can you say self medicating ADHD.
Thanks all for your help.