Brand Spanking New & Confused

( Keto-Peeps Rock! ) #1

Hey all

I have not started a keto-diet yet, still trying to sell it to my family. But there’s so much information on the net about this, and so many conflicting statements by all the “experts”. So my thinking is to check with those who are actually doing this and what you guys have found.

Currently doing a fake water fast - drinking water, coffee (3 - 4 small cups, black&bitter obviously), teas (with a dab of cinnamon) and sparkling water only. I do the coffees at meal times (am still cooking for my fam), and it helps with the hunger pangs.

Surprisingly easy to resist temptation to eat… which is really confusing to me because I am a smoker. :disappointed:

I thought it would be SUPER easy to quit if i can manage to stay away from food for 115 hours (so far). But in spite of two attempts so far the past 4 days, i’ve failed miserably each time. I get super anxious and agitated.

It’s upsetting because i read somewhere that nicotine causes sugar levels in blood to rise, which would obviously kick me out of ketosis. I feel like i am just messing myself around trying to fast.

Main reason for fasting - to activate autophagy. Aiming for 14 days. I came across the idea of fasting because when i had an illness earlier the year, i could hardly eat for 3 weeks, and my skin never looked better. Somebody wrote an article about fasting and how it improved their eczema (cured it…).

It’s only when i started the fast and read up more ketosis (which the guy mentioned briefly in the article) that i also discovered autophagy and all it’s benefits.

So now I am in this fast, and i’ve made it this far. But should i just give it up on account of my failure to quit smoking? Try to kick the habit first and then go on a keto-diet?

Reason i am here is because i have not gotten any keto-flu symptoms yet, my heart rate is slightly elevated (taking salt for that) and my mouth tastes funny (but no foul breath). I obviously have to go to the loo a lot because i average 2 to 3 liters of water per day… so that’s not a tell tale. It’s frustrating that others reach ketosis in 3 days and i am going in to day 5 and still nothing.

(I’ve never been so anxious to get sick in my life before!).

Oh, also have to mention, i went in to this fast from a moderate carb diet, but idiotically ate a bunch of dark chocolate the day before i started (it was a Christmas gift ><).

Am i wasting my time?

Sorry about the long post but Thank You <3 for reading xx

(Frank) #2

I guess my first question would be where did you read that going on a 14 day fast right out of the chute would be a good idea?

(Running from stupidity) #3

I think you’re conflating two disparate ideas here. Nicotine has significant habitual/addictive/physiological hooks, and showing you can do without something else doesn’t alter the fact that nicotine has those effects on your body/brain.

Am i wasting my time?

No, but I think you’re going about it in a very strange way, and making things significantly harder on yourself, in addition to expecting things to happen FAR too quickly.

Generally speaking, this is a HORMONE control diet rather than a CALORIE control diet. (“Diet” being used to mean “the kinds of food that a person, animal, or community habitually eats” rather than society’s current usage of “short-term fad eating pattern.”)

My basic rules to start:

  1. Clear the house of carbs (if possible)
  2. track your food intake (teaches you what is and isn’t sensible to eat in terms of carbs)
  3. eat plenty of real food (keto is not a calorie-restricted eating system)
  4. keep carbs under 20g (make sure you do this)

As Frank said, starting with a two-week fast is extremely unusual, and as I said above, truly making things difficult for yourself, ESPECIALLY when done in addition to quitting smoking.

I feel like i am just messing myself around trying to fast.

Totally agree.

Not eating is great - once you’re fat adapted and you’re settled in the lifestyle. Until then, it’s just another complication. Your first real goal is to get fat-adapted, not ketosis per se, and the best way to do that is to eat plenty of fat early on.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #4

How do you know you’re not in ketosis? (I didn’t see anything about measuring in your post, but I could well have missed it, don’t mind me.) The reason I ask is that you’ve been fasting long enough that I would be very surprised if you were not making ketones, and that funny feeling in your mouth is an indication that you are.

Keep the salt up, and you will avoid the keto “flu.” But don’t go bonkers drinking water; it is sufficient to drink to thirst. (On the other hand, if you have to remember to check whether you’re thirsty or not, perhaps a little extra water is not a bad idea, lol!)

(Carolyn aka stokies) #5

I feel that you may have gotten over excited and ran head long into the program a little backwards or sideways perhaps?

Glad you are interested in this and welcome, first off. There are plenty of ways into this world, where some are harder than others. I feel that to be successful at this, you need to work your way up to a fast of that length. Start with hey - can I eat only 3x a day with no snacks? Can I then extend my fasting hours from 10-12 to 16 or 18? But even before that, transitioning into keto or any LCHF diet does a WORLD of good/help when you do get to fasting, as it helps your body switch from carb burning to fat burning, which is the primary function of fasting. If your body doesn’t really know how to switch it up, it can cause some body freak outs and not yield results you are hoping for.

That said, you can fast with any type of eating lifestyle, per Dr. Fung. However it is often better tolerated if you are fat adapted.

Good luck and keep researching!

( Keto-Peeps Rock! ) #6

Thanks for the reply all.

To answer the first question, this is the exact article i read:

I must admit i did not do enough research prior to jumping in to this. But i am in it now and would love to see this though.

The little i read up on about fasting prior was to prepare yourself and only eat fruits for two days before. We unfortunately went on a family outing on the day before i started and i failed miserably at disciplining myself.

The article says to be able to rest PLENTY, and the first two weeks of the year is literally the only time i can do this. The rest of the time i have to be on the road daily and so on with kids, work etc.

So this is why i was anxious to get started, on account of being VERY fed up with my skin. Obviously i have tried to quit smoking numerous times in the past as this is clearly not helping my eczema.

But then, as i started this fast, i read up more about ketosis (to know when i am in it or not) and then i came across all kinds of videos on YouTube about the keto-diet. And autophagy. And the more i learned, the more psyched i got.

The thing is, this is a MAJOR accomplishment for me so far, and i am shocked at how easy it has been (apart from the smoking nonsense). I know i can see this through, i’ve read up on what to watch out for, and so far no ill health side effects that’s concerning.

It just really upsets me that i cannot kick the nicotine. I am making another attempt tomorrow - i’ve decided to approach this the same way i approached the first two days of fasting. Everytime i felt hungry, i drank water…

Well now every time i feel the need to light up, i’ll be sure to watch an Alan Carr video (even downloaded the app) INSTEAD of smoking. I’ve been watching them with every smoke break, but i think i was just kidding myself.

The only thing that is discouraging me is that i might totally be negating the purpose of this fast (to heal my skin) by being unable to quit.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #7

Several recovering heroin addicts have told me that it was harder to get off nicotine than it was to get off heroin. It’s not one of my addictions, but I know addiction from the inside, so you have my sympathy.

There is a 12-Step program called Nicotine Anonymous, see if there is a group meeting near you. I used to have a housemate who found it invaluable when he needed help quitting smoking.

God bless.

( Keto-Peeps Rock! ) #8

Thank You <3 Will definitely look in to that.

(mole person) #9

Ok, first of all don’t worry about this. If you’ve fasted for 48 hours or more than you glycogen stores have been fully consumed. This means there is no other energy source for your body except its own fat. Once your body is using your fat stores for its energy you ARE in ketosis. Ketone production is a biproduct of fat metabolism. And you are definitely metabolising fat because otherwise you would die since you aren’t consuming any calories. So don’t worry about smoking keeping you out of ketosis when you are fasting.

I think this is where your fear is stemming from. Don’t worry about it. Keto-flu comes from and electrolyte imbalance that a lot of people have trouble with at the start of ketosis. But not everyone gets it. I never did but my husband, who ate exactly the same foods, thought he would die he had it so bad. I sometimes wonder if more men have it really bad than women.

Lastly, I think you should try keto. it’s been amazing for my skin issues and I never fast.

#10

Welcome to the group and keto.

Definitely read up or watch vids. The extra information will definitely help you in many ways. There are soooo many great vids and books we are now spoiled for choice.

Nina Techoilz is great. Too many others to list. There are also many documentaries on all this stuff too.

BTW - not everyone gets “keto flu” so that isn’t much to go by.

I don’t know about fasting yet. Could be too many change too soon? The primary driver is 20g carbs.

As for fam, yeah, mine are not into keto so every meal has to please everyone. I have to be very creative but often it just means I avoid the rice my wife makes and eat all the rest. Or I’ll have all the veggies except the sugar packed ones likes carrots. I also add butter on top of my veggies. And bingo. Keto. Pretty easy but it requires knowledge (hence the homework and reading up).

I am amazed at how close our previous diet was to keto - yet sooo far. If you know what I mean. Just had to tweak a few things here and there.

Or put it all yet another way. I just avoid bread, rice and pasta (and obvious sugar) and that about does it. Perfect text book keto.

But the kids have a lot of side snacks, which surprise are just bags of sugar. Ice cream, pancakes … always eating yet always saying they’re hungry. I wish they would try some real food, some bacon and eggs or something.

(mole person) #11

So true.

(Jane) #12

If you have made it to Day 5 water/coffee fasting and feel ok then don’t give up! I was keto for 6-7 months before I tried fasting and I saw my greatest improvements in skin and hair after I fasted for 3 days, 2 weeks in a row.

I would recommend you transitioning to keto when you break your fast to continue to get the benefits of running on ketones like you are now.

Welcome!

( Keto-Peeps Rock! ) #13

Thank you for the encouragement. I am experiencing more itchy skin than usual though (my legs of all places :woman_facepalming: but my hands have slowly been clearing up and this is where my skin was crusty - so much so i could not open my one hand fully or the skin on my little finger tore. I can open my hand now even though the skin is till very taut. The leg itching is freaking me out a little must admit.

Good to know that i may be skipping keto-flu… this is the second night in a row that i am having a battle with sleeping through the night. I’ve read that this is also an indication of ketosis. Will this stop? (Sleeping is one of my favorite things, i am horrible without sleep!)

( Keto-Peeps Rock! ) #14

Thank you for replying :slight_smile: I quite like Thomas DeLauer. Rod Stuart is a bit intense, but also interesting to watch. And Dr Boz has been very helpful too. I’ve read up so much about this this past few days, i cant keep all my info straight anymore - Info Overload of note. Should have made notes to reference back to LOL.

Sounds pretty simple - cut out ALL the foods you (i) Love, and you are following a Keto-diet, basically - or almost? :frowning: Suppose this is why so many find it difficult to maintain keto - my tastiest dishes are italian based. And Sushi :frowning_face: ohmegosh how to do without this. Why are the Japanese all so skinny if they consume this regularly?! ><

Not to mention carrots and corn. At least my all time fave veggie is (barely) on the keto-grocery list - being cauliflower. :wink:

@Janie
Thank you, going to stick with it! :smiley:

I’ve tried to find more on how to come out of an extended fast and stay in ketosis, and only found Rod Stuart’s video on this subject, but it was difficult for me to follow.

How do you recommend to transition over (without avo-soup :nauseated_face:) ??

(mole person) #15

This sounds like it could be keto rash, which some people have some trouble with early on. I had a small amount of it a few times while working out but it was barely anything. But I had a girlfriend who go it so badly that she went to her doctor who knew nothing about ketogenic diets and he told her to get off the diet and she listened to him :confused:. It may indicate that you are taking the wrong route into ketosis.

Keto rash happens because when you go into ketosis at the start of a keto diet your body is still terrible at using ketones efficiently. So you have all of these ketones being pumped out but they aren’t being used for energy very well at all yet. So your body gets rid of them in other ways. They can come out with your breath which can smell sort of bad, they come out in your pee, and they come out in your sweat.

Some people have a skin reaction to this last one and, for a few, it can be seriously itchy and even lead to a rash. Luckily it’s not permanent and there are ways to deal with it in the meantime. But what you absolutely should NOT be doing if you have keto rash is fasting. Keto rash means you have to sloooooow ketosis initially until you become more fat adapted but fasting puts you into the deepest possible state of ketosis.

I recommend you start a keto diet but at 50 grams of carbs and see if you are in ketosis at that level and how your itching is. If you itching continues add a 1/2 cup of berries (not blueberries though) twice a day. It usually helps. after a few weeks you can try cutting the berries and later the carbs too if you need to.

Keto rash is only a problem for people at the beginning of fat adaptation but if they don’t know what to do they can be freaked out by it and bail on a diet that may have helped them immensely if they’d just worked through it with techniques that are generally very successful.

I hope this helps. Good luck.

(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #16

Welcome! I have been a smoker and it may not be the most popular advice, but I think I’d do one thing at a time: fast OR start a new way of eating OR stop smoking, etc. Life changes are tough to get going. Might be more successful if you don’t pile two on at once. Keep up the good work!

Meal Frequency and Times
( Keto-Peeps Rock! ) #17

Okidoki :expressionless: I dont have a rash, but will definitely halt the fast should i get one. For now it’s just light itchiness - and could be caused by a lot of things (like the new bed sheets i got for Christmas! LOL). But no, will definitely stop if it gets worse.

As i may be going over the hump now, i am excited to see what i will feel like in the next 2 to 3 days. Really am enjoying fasting in itself, it’s honestly the most pleasant experience in the sense of not one cramp or gassy moment in the past week - i also battle with IBS from time to time (another incentive to let my digestive system rest).

But i do feel a bit nervous now, as my body might be a bit dim with what to do with ketones :laughing: Will definitely keep an eye on this and begrudgingly let go of the fast if need be.

( Keto-Peeps Rock! ) #18

Thank You <3

(Robbie Ettehad) #19

Some years ago I quit smoking and went on a low carb (not Keto) diet. Drinking water was very helpful to me in stopping the smoking as it gave me a substitute to reach for or hold in my hand. But I tended to do most of my smoking while commuting in my car, and didn’t smoke at home.

(mole person) #20

Don’t worry, nothing bad comes of this other then being a little lower energy for a few weeks and maybe having a bit of brain fog. it’s actually interesting that you are finding fasting so easy and feeling so well. It may be that your body is dealing with ketones quite well right off the bat. We’re not all the same in this respect at all.