Brand new to keto. Question about fat adaptation

(Roy D Rushing Jr ) #1

So I literally decided to jump into a ketogenic lifestyle today. I’ve long known what ketosis is and more or less how to get into it, but I never wanted to give up carbs. I’ve had periods of great success with IIFYM type diets and simple calorie restriction, but it always seems to end with me slowly creeping back into a caloric surplus and putting the weight back on. I’m seeing that happening right now, and I’d really like to break the cycle if that’s possible. I’m kind of wondering what I’m in for in terms of the “keto flu” I hear about.

Due to some particulars of how I’ve been living for the last couple of years I wonder if I might already be a bit more fat adapted than the average person though. I’ve been fasting somewhere around the 16:8 schedule for years now (aside from MCT oil in my coffee which I take for energy). I exercise every day (cardio and moderate intensity weight lifting). I take about 3 tbs of MCT oil throughout the day because I like the energy it gives me.

My theory is that the daily fasting with nothing but MCT oil may already have my body primed for ketosis, and the exercise probably doesn’t hurt either. My main observation that leads me to this thought is that for me the MCT oil is very effective. My body must be able to process it efficiently due to having received only that for the larger part of most days, and therefor it is already well down the road toward being fat adapted despite a rather high daily carb intake (several hundred grams of carbs per day ultimately).

I guess my question is: Does this make any sense? It’s something I always thought about when I considered adopting a ketogenic diet. I guess now I’m going to find out one way or another. Anyway, thanks for any responses. This looks like a great community. I hope to become a regular here in the future!

(Jay AM) #2

I’ll put my recommendations for newbies below. Most people efficiently process MCT, that’s what it does. It moves quickly. Sometimes we get newbies that have already gotten crazy with it without having been ketogenic first, it will burn quickly but doesn’t stick around to be super useful. However, when you were fasting and using it, likely you were going into ketosis. But then breaking it with the excessive carbs and resultant insulin spike. Ketosis is not fat adaptation however. You may or may not enter quicker. You may or may not see a reduction in exercise stamina and weight lifting ability in the beginning. Keto flu is optional for most, there’s a link in my recommendations for ketoaide. Consider switching some of your MCT out for coconut oil and other slower long chain fats from foods.

We have a few sayings here, “keep calm, keto on” and “trust the process.” Keto isn’t a quick weight loss diet. It’s a health gaining way of eating with fat loss as a side effect. If the scale is an unhealthy obsession, put it away for a couple of months or give it to a neighbor you don’t like.

There are two phases to ketosis and a ketogenic lifestyle.

Nutritional ketosis is phase one. Your body begins to produce and uptake some ketones while dumping the rest. It will still search for glucose to use as fuel. In this phase it’s not an efficient process. It has to work actively to get rid of stored glycogen, clean up excess blood sugar, and turn on the ability to use ketones.

Fat adaptation is phase two. Your body is efficiently producing ketones from intake and stored body fat and is also using them efficiently for energy. It takes around 6-8 weeks of strict keto to achieve for many but not all.
The basic “rules” I go by and many others can agree with especially for beginners are:

*20g net carbs max (you might tolerate more but, starting out, 20g net carbs or less will get you into ketosis.)

*Moderate protein (Moderate means eating different meats and eggs. Preferably meats with their own fat or meats you will add fat to. We aren’t trying to eat protein to be full, we want to add enough fat to our meals to be full with. If you are searching for a number, 1g-1.5g per kg of lean bodyweight is a good goal based on the 2 Dudes recommendations.)

*Fat to satiety (add fat to every meal and, if you are hungry, eat more fat. Don’t be afraid of fat. It is energy.)

*Do not restrict calories

*Do not exercise excessively in an effort to lose weight

*Drink plenty of water

*Get plenty of sodium and other electrolytes (Try homemade ketoaide)

(Empress of the Unexpected) #3

Welcome! You’ve come to the right place! So much information here, and support. I am three weeks tomorrow and feeling great. I’ve always been a meat/cheese etc lover but was gaining weight with all the bread and pasta added. Once I understood the theory behind all this I was able to easily ditch the carbs. I just had a couple of days at the beginning when I couldn’t get off the couch, but nothing extreme. Have my energy back now

(Roy D Rushing Jr ) #4

Wow thanks for the great responses! I see the difference between fat adaptation and Ketosis now. Well hopefully the transition will be relatively painless for me. I’m looking into that ketoaide now!

(Chris W) #5

I think it is quit possible to become fat adapted without staying in ketosis all the time, the system of fat adaption is a metabolic one and although driven by the endocrine system its more on the cellular level. I think most people because of years of carb intake destroy that system by adult hood. The average person is not fat adapted at all its typically broken. Most keto eaters are fat adapted but that often takes months of repairing the cells to be able to actually accomplish using fat outside of the liver. If you have pulsed ketosis on and off for long term you probably have a readily functioning fat burning system.

That said if you only fasted with MCT oil, for less than 24 hours you could have done more damage than fixed. If you are in taking 50g or more of carbs you are most likely shutting down ketosis, and going into fat storage mode. So you going onto and off the insulin roller coaster just instead of sugar you are using fat. MCT’s in general go through the gut wall with breaking down and go straight to the liver for processing, if your insulin is low your most likely get ketones, if your insulin is high enough it will be converted into LCT’s for storage. Like wise fat adaption is controlled by insulin in the sense its on or off based on insulin level.

Not everyone goes through the keto flu if you up your salt intake after 2-3 days in you should be ok.

(Bev Walton) #6

Thank for this :grinning:

#7

MCT’s convert directly to ketones regardless of fat adaptation, that’s why the non keto people like them too, but you’ve definitely set yourself up on the right track to do this.

(Roy D Rushing Jr ) #8

So that’s 24 hours down. Measured my carb intake at about 10 grams for the first day. I understand (from the 2 keto guys podcast) that your body generally holds around a day’s supply of glucose, so I guess between the small amount of carbs I’m taking in and whatever glucose my body manufactures from protein I should be running out in a couple of days at least. I’m very keen to get into and through that stage of this.

Jay AM says that I shouldn’t exercise excessively to lose weight, but exercise has been a part of my daily routine for a long time now. Is that suggestion simply because of the lack of energy I’m likely to feel will make it a miserable experience? I suppose my workouts were never really grueling though. I really want to keep up with my weight lifting, but maybe I can dial back the cardio portion (which really always was there in an attempt to burn excess calories anyway). Wouldn’t some exercise also help deplete my glucose stores faster?

(Chris W) #9

I would say its ok to exercise, weight lifting as long as you are not going nuts is actually pretty good at getting ride of your stored glycogen. You will never burn calories through cardio or at least enough to brag about. Jay’s rules are more for someone who wants to change everything I think. Someone who was not active at all and now wants to conquer the world. Although the first few weeks I was not able to exercise in keto because of an injury/pain I started around week 3 and although it was noticeably harder I also had to deal with the pain and flexiblity issues from 6 weeks of not. I started with Resistance training and light amount of exercise bike at cardio levels. I tryed to do HIT for a week on my own, and not experiencing pre keto its hard to say but it was not as hard as cardio.

I would instead of using cardio look into doing it at LISS which is based on your age, although not very useful at the this second for you it will be down the road when you fat adapt. I switched to that on my cycle and it allows your to really go for a long time. If you are considering trying to up your weight program I would use slow and steady movements and exercise to failure. This builds your slow reaction muscle much better, but you may know this already.

The first few days in its not going to matter much, you will feel like crap most likely. Ride through that by about day 4-6 its should be fine. Exercising will get you into keto quicker you have to burn off the glycogen to certain level before the liver starts to kick keto. AFter a few weeks in I would also recommend you exercise fasted.

(Roy D Rushing Jr ) #10

So i wanted to revisit this thread because i’m on day 10 of the keto WOE and i already feel like maybe i’m getting fat adapted. I had a couple of low energy workouts last week, but things seem to be getting better. The food cravings have all but disappeared, and my energy levels seem very good compared to 3-4 days in. I have to postulate again that perhaps years of “intermittent fasting” where i just didn’t eat all day and then stuffed my face with carbs at night might have given me a head start. I read somewhere on these forums that one sign of fat adaptation is the ability to exercise fasted and still get an effective workout in.

I’m not exaggerating when i say that i’ve done exactly that for at least the last two years. My day always consists of waking with a cup of joe and mct oil, having one or two more of those later in the day, and then exercising before eating dinner. It’s been a very long time since the lack of food all day has presented any problem whatsoever. I think this is describing at least some level of pre-keto fat adaptation, and the way i’m feeling right now seems to bear that out. Any thoughts on whether that’s actually possible or not?

(Chris W) #11

At day 10 I would say you are keto adapted and not fat adapted there is a difference. Fasted exercising was normal for me after keto adapting if I was not doing cardio. If I was doing cardio ish I would not last as long, it came back slowly. Lower energy stuff like muscle building was not effected for me. The two big ones for me for fat adaption was the ability to fast in excess of 24 hours with out much bother, and regaining my cardio ability but I never really pushed my self as hard since starting keto. I am more about the long term when riding my bike not trying to make my heart pump. But I could do it again, and not last ten minutes.