Happened upon this interview of the great Fred Hahn (super slow master trainer and co-author of The Slow Burn Fitness Revolution, with the Drs. Eades) - and this post looks like the best place to put it!
He replies to comments at the end of the thread on the blog article - and there’s also a downloadable PDF of his training schedule (he did 3x week during his experimentation months, at 250 g protein in his eating windows).
As a 50+ fellow he mentions that more mature folks absorb/uptake protein less efficiently and must make the most of their protein in their eating windows – according to Paddon/Jones etc.
Since overhead press is one of the big 5, I’m guessing everybody here is doing it. Interestingly, this exercise is one of most injury prone exercises you can do. Moreover, the type of injury it causes is often chronic/ permanent. If you know many people who lift weights, you probably know somebody with a persistent rotator cuff injury. The overhead press is a perfect way to get one if you aren’t paying attention to you where your elbows are. Ask me how I know…
Don’t take for granted that the machine you typically use takes elbow postion and safety into consideration. The one I typically use is terrible! I’ll be moving that exercise to a different machine.
This is a great video that makes it obvious why elbow position is so important, and form cues to keep your shoulders healthy and happy. It’s only 5 minutes, but the key visual starts at 2:30 and takes about a minute to watch. Definitely worth watching.
Thanks. Very clear understanding.
Part of the reason why rotator cuff injuries are so prevalent is the most of the muscles worked in gym involve internal rotation of the shoulder. The 3 muscles responsible for external rotation, which are rotator cuff muscles, are never really exercised, and therefore never really grow. This imbalance results in poor posture, and shoulders being rolled forward as their default state. When the shoulder is in this unnatural “rolled forward” position during lifts like the bench press and overhead press, the shoulder is less stable, and the weak rotator cuff muscles are just one rep done in bad form away from being torn.
Here are some new rotator cuff exercises that I’ll be adding to each workout until I find something better. If someone knows of better exercises or other videos about shoulder health that are worth watching, please chime in and post a link. This is the best one I’ve found to date:
Not sure if this suggestion was made yet (still working my way through this lengthy thread) but the app called “Tabata Timer” (Android or Apple) is beyond phenomenal. It is so very customizable that you can make it do pretty much anything in terms of configuring reps, intervals, timing, voice commands, colors, screen configs, blah blah. The only downside is that it’s so tweakable it takes a while to master the tweaks to one’s satisfaction.
I currently use it for HIIT and BBS. Have already been playing with how to set it up for BFR in case I jump down this rabbit hole. For now, just reading all the relevant scientific research, youtube’ry, and related posts here.
BTW, I have no personal/financial interest … just an extremely impressed user.
Sounds perfect! I’ll give it a look.
In checking it if you get stumped and want suggestions on how to customize certain settings, give me a shout and I’ll get you up the hill.
Thanks for the info on rotator cuff and overhead press. I’ve looked at the eqpt I’m using and the angle is probably 5%. I found one at the gym that seems to be at least 30 degrees and the handles can be moved in an out, changing the angle.
Mine was 5% too.
This is how I was taught to do shoulder press by J Vincent on his nautilus equipment. Makes a hell of a lot more sense. This is the kind grip orientation I’ll be looking for the next time I go to the gym. It hadn’t occurred to me that it would matter very much until my shoulder started hurting. As it turns out, form is important on machines just like it is on free weights…
just checking in…
I had a few days off, we went to Pula for the weekend and I ran out of time on Monday and Tuesday morning, so I had my leg day today.
I did a 30-min FB workout as a warm-up and did BFR legs:
18/10/10/10 hip thrusters, 30/15/15/15 calf raises with 3kg weights in each hand, finished off with some pilates side leg raises and called it a day. I felt a little lazy, but I did my best to finish strong.
My husband was on sick-leave last week and I will try to convince him to go out tonight and see a gym. I really want to find a trainer that knows his BBS or is at least willing to train me by the BBS method. Keep your fingers crossed…
I have added athlean-xx, for women, to my youtube subscription and I am making my way through her videos.
I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you, but there aren’t that many HIRT instructors out there. Most people in the fitness industry sell workouts by the hour. A 15 minute workout done once per week is like kryptonite to them. There’s no money in it. It’s just like nutrition where there are 1,000 people selling supplements and meal replacement products, but just one Jason Fung saying “Want to lose weight? Don’t eat anything for a day or two…”. But you never know, you might get lucky.
That said, it really doesn’t matter that much whether you find a certified HIRT instructor. Keep in mind that BBS was designed to be the simplest workout possible, and that 90% of people who do it have never had a personal training session in their lives.
If you decide to go the personal trainer route, there are really just 3 things you need:
- A gym
- Instruction on how to use the equipment in good form
- Experience with true failure
When it comes to picking a gym, find the most convenient one possible. It will take you longer to drive to the gym than it will to do your workout. You won’t be there long enough to use the oxygen bar, the wheat-grass smoothie station or even the showers so you don’t need a $100/month high-end gym. If you should find one with Nautilus equipment though (you won’t) pick that one even if it means driving a bit further.
You’ve only got to learn good form for 5 exercises, and they will be done on machines, so pretty much any licensed personal trainer should be able to get you started. Good form is the same regardless of what speed you’re moving at. They’ll get paid for their 30 minutes either way. Be clear on what your goals are and articulate them definitively up front. You’re experimenting with slow cadence and failure training on 5 exercises. If you find someone with strong opinions about cadence, or failure training, or warming up, pay them, fire them, and find someone who can follow directions. You are the boss.
As far as getting used to true failure, a coach can help, but only you can actually get yourself there. It hurts like hell to keep pushing with 100% effort when you’re approaching failure but it’s just for a few seconds. The entire point of the workout is just to get to those 10 seconds, so it’s just a matter of focusing on them. The best hack I’ve found is the “rest and check method”. After I finish a set I let myself recover for about 30 seconds or so and then I try as hard as I possibly can to do another rep. If I can do another rep, I know I screwed up. You’ll get the hang of it pretty quick.
Question with the BFR training. Sunday was my third BFR training for biceps and triceps over three weeks. I didn’t change moves, but here it is Wednesday and I’m still very sore. I was sore the first two times (it was a good deep muscle tissue soreness), but it kind of let up quite a bit after a couple of days.
I drank a caesin protein immediately after workout and feasted clean, but heavy during the Superbowl. I went into an alternate fasting day (water/salt) for 36 hours on Monday with a Tuesday re-feed. Developed a slight cough last night (flu and sickness is rampant here) and the soreness this Thursday morning still feels like it would be within a 24 hour range instead 72+ after a workout. Am I getting sick or is this soreness from the BFR.
You’ve got DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness). It’s pretty common with BFR when you first get started. I got it too, and it lasted for 4-5 days. I would have guessed that you’d be past it by the third session, but everybody is different.
Did you go to failure on one or more of your bicep sets? Had you done so in the past? What was your lifting experience prior to BFR?
You are probably right. I did fatigue the muscles a little more in this session. Had the “I can’t raise my arms” feeling that I used to get back in the day. I had been doing barbell curls the weeks leading up to BFR and was quite surprised with the deep, but good, soreness from BFR. There is definitely something to the science behind it. I’m always one looking to work out smarter instead of longer. I’ve incorporated it into my son’s squat session and the pump he gets is unreal without having to lay crazy amounts of weights on his shoulders.
Great observation/suggestion. Will keep this in mind when BBS’ing. Many thanks for the insightful comment.
Thanks for your advice Don
I try to approach business as “I’m paying for it, so I might as well get what I want,” but it doesn’t always work that way. My husband’s friend is a trainer, but she does Crossfit and other aerobic exercises, so I doubt she would understand what I would like to do…but it never hurts to ask.
I was trying to find Nautilus equipment in our gyms, but I couldn’t find any… A lot of gyms offer packages of 10 visits ranging from 5 to 8€ per visit, the best option for BBS. Keto has taught me to stand up for myself, so I will put my big girl pants on and try to get what I want.
That does in fact work, on me at least if your feeling a little pudgy…lol
BBS day. 7 days recovery. I’m not reporting details. Like my last report I do 7 exercises.
I improved good to excellent on 6 of them. One I changed eqpt so I can’t judge improvements or not.
Some improvement with chest press (added 2 reps) by moving it after leg workouts. I may continue to mix up chest press order. Maybe next time I’ll do that first.
I had some crazy assignment at work that I don’t know how to accomplish in the given timeframe. I used that stress to motivate me. I’m also starting to visualize more reps and am telling myself “you are so much stronger than you imagine”.
I so love BBS. I can notice muscle and connective tissue changes 2 to 3 days out.
Happy workouts folks.
Thanks for letting me participate in your thread!
My story: I’m a 55 year-old male, 5’ 10", currently 165 pounds. 18 months ago I was at 215 pounds and went to the doctor for the first time in twenty years and was diagnosed as Type II diabetic. I adopted keto and within three months, had normalized HbA1C and dropped 30 pounds. From diagnosis to the beginning of this year, I was doing traditional high-volume, high-frequency weight training. I also walk between 2 and 6 miles per day, depending on weather and work schedule.
Currently: Since the beginning of this year, I have been doing high intensity resistance training using bodyweight (I work out at home as soon as I get up.) I’m following a program called Project Kratos from Drew Baye. I train every third or fourth day, though I think this will change as I get better at achieving true momentary muscular failure and incorporate BFR. My BFR bands arrive today or tomorrow, and I’ll be trying to figure out how to intermix BFR training and HIRT. I try to practice time restricted eating (16:8 - 18:6) on days other than HIRT and sometimes the day after. I don’t track calories or macros and rarely cheat, even through the holidays. My goal is to lose between 5 and 10 pounds (preferably fat) in the next six months.
It’s nice to have found some folks with similar interests!