Bob Harper host of Biggest Loser had a heart attack

(Richard Morris) #143

Almost everything I know about lipoproteins I learned from Ken Sikaris and @DaveKeto

(Dave) #144

You’re too kind, @richard! :slight_smile:


Video reviews the data obtained from studying mice model where the mice can’t make vitamin C and make LP(a).

A normal mouse makes vitamin C and doesn’t make LP(a).

Other than humans; guinea pigs, bats and dry-nosed primates have lost their ability to produce vitamin C.

They report that vit. C deficiant mice have severely damaged arterial structure compared to mice that are fully supplemented with C. The only difference between the control and experimental group was the amount of vitamin C given. Artery wall thickens where LP(a) is deposited providing structural reinforcement against hemorrhage.

In the lack of sufficient vitamin C the LP(a) acts like a patch to repair damaged artery.

(Richard Morris) #146

Awesome video. Thanks for that.

I knew that VitC is necessary for building collagen structures, but the relationship to Lp(a) is fascinating.

BTW If Bob Harper was Vitamin C deficient on his pre-heart attack “healthy” diet then he needs his ass kicked.

(What The Fast?!) #147

Right?? I always feel like I need a “TL;DR” when he whips out all the facts. Can someone write a “Keto Research Stuff for Dummies” book?

(Michael Wallace Ellwood) #148

Right. No one actually needs a CAC score, or a DXA scan or whatever, to do keto. One can use scales, a tape measure, relatively cheap glucose and ketone monitors & a relatively cheap BP monitor to get some indication that things are going the right way, as well as response to exercise and how one feels.

(Michael Wallace Ellwood) #149

Owen Fonorow of the Vitamin C foundation is a strong promoter of the Pauling / Rath protocol for heart disease:

He’s also quite keen on vitamin K2 for de-calcifying the arteries. I think we now know a lot more about vitamin K2 than was known when Linus Pauling was still alive.


How awesome would this be? The student becoming the teacher in the best way!

(Stickin' with mammoth) #151

(sigh) Unfortunately, it seems Bob has learned little from his experiences.

(Keto in Katy) #152

When I hear someone attribute health issues to “genetics” I think it usually means “I don’t know WTF is happening here so it must be genetic.”

(Brian) #153

While I still have respect for those who want to eat a plant based diet, I also know a LOT of vegans and vegetarians personally. Unfortunately, there are way more of them than I think they’d like to admit that have heart (and other health) issues.

I am close to quite a few of these people, some are like family… a few are family…, and I love them dearly. But they’ve been indoctrinated to believe that animal products and fats are evil, carbs are good, and sugar is ok (as is evidenced by the weekly potluck), so much so that they are often more content getting drugs from their doctors than working towards figuring out what the real problems are. For some, trying to convince them that not all carbs are equal is monumental, let alone the idea that it’s best to just leave the sugar behind completely. For many, they can’t seem to wait to try out the latest chemical concoction that tastes like and has the texture of meat. UUGGHHH!!! …(and then call it “health food”.)

Not all, I’ve known some very healthy vegetarian types. They tend to be very proactive in getting their nutrients. Unfortunately, that’s a small minority in the circles I travel. I suspect if you’re reading this, you probably are in the minority that are thinking about how you’re getting your nutrient needs met, and that’s good, not just about whether what you’re about to eat had a mother.


I saw Bob Harper on the Dr. Oz show yesterday.

Surprise! Surprise! Bob Harper claims that he was on a paleo diet prior to the heart attack - a typical spread of the paleo diet is included in the shot: “lean” meats, green leafy vegetables, nuts and healthy oils. Dr. Oz chimes in to say that it is a healthy diet except if you have a genetic condition like Bob.

Then Bob proceeds to show us his current diet: eggs whites (eww), greek yoghurt with cereal (!!!), tofu and veggies, quinoa, quinoa, quinoa and fish. Dr. Oz says how it’s essential to include some healthy grains and cereal in a good diet.

Bob also mentioned a doctor that is helping him with his new diet, a referral from Dr. Oz apparently. I didn’t catch his name. This doctor wanted Bob to go vegan but Bob couldn’t give up the fish. :sweat_smile:

In retrospect the food display segment of the show seemed awkward. And all I seemed to hear was “eat carbs” and “go vegan”. :roll_eyes:

(Lee Ann) #155

Does anyone know of any human studies on fasting and Lp(a)?

I found this article on Cynomolgus Monkeys that they think may me a good model for studying Lp(a), but didn’t find any human studies.


The present study showed that the plasma Lp(a) levels in cynomolgus monkeys show large individual difference similar to humans. Complete fasting for 4 days decreased the plasma Lp(a) level in a monkey with a high level of Lp(a), and this decrease continued after banana feeding. The Lp(a) level returned to the original level by feeding normal monkey chow to the monkey. On the other hand, a monkey with a low level of Lp(a) and a monkey being fed half the amount of monkey chow as the other two monkeys showed no effect on Lp(a) levels.

These results show that high levels of plasma Lp(a) may be decreased by fasting or feeding of certain foods. Therefore, diet may be used as a method of preventing and/or treating high Lp(a) levels. This study indicates that the cynomolgus monkey can be used as an animal model in place of humans for research of plasma Lp(a) metabolism. However, since we used only 3 monkeys, further studies need to be performed to clarify this.

(Dustin Cade) #156

Seems like he’s doubling down on carbs…


Lipoprotein(a) Foundation Thanks Bob Harper for Revealing High Lp(a) Levels Led to His Recent Heart Attack on The Dr Oz Show

The little-known heart risk Bob Harper wants people to know about

“Harper has since learned he has a hereditary condition involving high levels of lipoprotein (a) in his blood, a particle that contributes to plaque in the arteries and blood clots, and can increase the risk of heart attacks.”


Harper’s familial lipoprotein lipase deficiency was not caused by his diet. But he has it, and has to make adjustments. Those without this issue don’t need to make these adjustments; a vegan diet won’t save us from a heart attack, as vegans get heart attacks too. What I think Bob Harper’s ordeal supports is that the hypothesis that low vitamin C levels lead to arterial cracks being repaired, not by collagen, but by lipoprotein(a), is correct. Poor Dr Rath, so long ignored and scorned, needs attention and respect.

“Familial lipoprotein lipase (LPL) deficiency usually presents in childhood and is characterized by very severe hypertriglyceridemia with episodes of abdominal pain, recurrent acute pancreatitis, eruptive cutaneous xanthomata, and hepatosplenomegaly. Clearance of chylomicrons from the plasma is impaired, causing triglycerides to accumulate in plasma and the plasma to have a milky (lactescent or lipemic) appearance. Symptoms usually resolve with restriction of total dietary fat to ≤20 g/day.”

(GINA ) #159

There are not cardiac deaths at all major running events. As of 2016, there have been less than 50 deaths at marathons since Pheidippides ran 26 miles and dropped dead in 490 BC. Many of those deaths were not even heart attacks. One death rate number I found was 1 in 50-88k people that run marathons.

I googled a little about deaths during ultramarathons (over 26 miles and usually held in the mountains or desert) and found one man that died of hypothermia, and one found the next day in his hotel having died from pneumonia.

About Bob Harper… he may have dropped dead at 35 if he was not as fit as he is. You just can’t know.

(Mandy ) #160

All I can say is make sure u know all hereditary deasiess in ur family coz no matter how fit n healthy u may be it will always be a factor in ur life…


However, Lp(a) has a very special trick up its sleeve. It mimics plasminogen.

The main player in thrombolysis is plasminogen. It becomes incorporated into (almost) all blood clots that form. It is activated by tissue plasminogen activator (t-PA). This turns plasminogen into plasmin, the ‘active’ enzyme that slices fibrin apart [fibrin is a long, and very strong, string of fibrinogen molecules that wraps round blood clots and binds them together].
The fascinating thing about the protein, apolipoprotein (a), is that is has almost exactly the same chemical structure as plasminogen. So close, that you could hardly tell it apart. However, apolipoprotein (a) is completely unaffected by t-PA. It does not convert to plasmin, it is inert. So, when you want to break down a clot (fibrinolysis), the parts that have Lp(a) incorporated into it, cannot be broken down…

Which means that if you have a high Lp(a) level, you will develop bigger and more difficult to break down blood clots. Exactly what evolution had in mind for creatures that cannot manufacture vitamin C, and need to plug cracks in artery walls when the vitamin C level falls. However, not so good, if you want to stop atherosclerosis from developing.

Because these Lp(a) rich blood clots have to go somewhere, and the only place that they can go is to be absorbed into the artery wall itself, and then broken down. However, these clots are more difficult to break down, so, with repeated clots over the same area of artery wall, bigger and bigger plaques will grow.

That, anyway, is the theory.

In order to provide a degree of protection against vitamin C deficiency (scurvy), we produce lipoprotein (a) to fill up the cracks the blood vessels. However, unsurprisingly, a high level of lipoprotein (a) Lp(a) is associated with a higher rate of CVD.


This came up in discussing the current keto-carnivore interest in 2019. The discussion moved to Vit C in the diet. Following a logic path, lower Vitamin C in the diet may influence the liver to produce more lipoprotein (a) on the keto- carnivore way of eating? May that increase cardiovascular disease risk?

The other co-incident was Ivor Cummins interviewing Dr. Malcom Kendrick

Lipoprotein (a) increases in a low Vitamin C diet?