Blue Zones Don’t Exist

(Ethan) #1

Apparently, the Blue Zones are just from bad data, such as deaths not being registered:

#2

Thank you

Here is another article with more details

(Geoffrey) #3

Of course they are. All of those type studies are cherry picked with no scientific evidence and agenda driven.

#4

I wonder about Lorma Linda since that one has decent record keeping I would think although I dont know anyone connected to them. I always thought Okinawa was because they were starved during the war and reducing calories supposedly extends lifespan although that has not been proven in humans

#5

As far as I know, the Okinawa thing is a mess, based on some years when the people ate very differently from their usual… But when it comes to out lifespan, it’s not about a few select years…

Whatever, I never would care about these things anyway as I know I am an individual, even if we would know that a specific diet did great to a population, it hardly could translate to my own case. And even the same diet can be done differently, amounts matters, there are so many other factors anyway… Just in general, it could help if it wouldn’t be so complicated and people would eat the same all their life…

(KM) #6

Watching the show about Blue Zones, I always thought the suggestions not related to diet were a good idea - community, purpose, stress relief, exercise, etc. I also think the diet(s) tend to focus on handmade, whole local foods processed at home, another good idea. So overall my takeaway from the beginning has been that the advice probably improves quality of life and Might increase lifespan, but I was suspicious of the record keeping “proof” of longevity from the start.

#7

I watched the show a while ago. I like to watch things that have a different view. I have to say all the studies on vegetarians living longer always gave me pause and it did make me wonder if I should be eating more vegetables (I can never be carnivore and do not really like meat all that much but I try and I like it well enough, just not enough to eat it exclusively). I love that this study was done.

As for the recommendations, I am not sure all of it matters. Sure, limiting processed food. Community and having a purpose because lets face it if you are sitting in your house depressed with no one to talk to you and no purposeful activities (whether work, family, friends, children/grandchildren, volunteering, pets) then you probably do not want to continue. However, I am not sure about stress. Yes I have seen the before and after photos of US presidents and it definitely ages them. There are many people who have been through other stress and they are centenarians. Many of the Ashkenazi (European) Jews who became centenarians had very stressful lives.Concentration camps, escaping Nazis, coming to America with nothing, starting over after losing most of their family. Same with the Okinawans who were starved during the war. They do seem to have plenty of healthy elderly even if the study about Blue Zones is a myth

(KM) #8

Maybe it’s more like learning how to self soothe and deal with extreme stress; a mindset that finds a way to either release the inner demons or keep the external ones outside, a way of thinking and being that somehow promotes survival. Literally, “if I made it through that, I can make it through anything.”

I do wonder what the outer limit is so far. I got interested in the supposed oldest person to have lived, Jeanne Calment, 122 1/2 at the time of death. IMO it’s almost certain the family “replaced” Jeanne long long ago with her daughter, to avoid inheritance taxes. If that’s true, there has been no person with a verified age of 120 yet.

#9

I believe in that. The same isolation and no purpose affects people very differently I am sure. Stress and feeling down a lot doesn’t necessarily worn one down, at least not physically (well if it means one barely moves, that is different but one can be mostly hopeless at the rock bottom for ages without stopping exercising or wanting to live for a long time. and the mind may find some ways to handle with bad situations so the person wouldn’t break)…

I definitely aim to live longer than 120 but when I will be that old, surely there will be many who lived longer. It probably can’t go up a lot in the not super far future (though who knows… but it doesn’t seem so to me now) but it still can go up a little. 120 is very much possible, it’s not much more than what quite several people had, after all.

#10

When I was a child I always assumed they would find a treatment for old age by the time I got there. Now I am not that far away and am sorely disappointed. Thinking of getting a degree in biochemistry so I can do something about it

#11

No reason to be disappointed, there’s been huge advancements in anti-aging and many things we know can extend life. We can’t turn ourselves into vampires, but we know what can reverse lots of damage to our bodies, we know given the ways we can tell / predict biological age that much of it works, to what degree for us, we’ll know every year we don’t die. But given plenty of people break 100 that never try to, given what we’re constantly learning, there’s no reason people can’t when they’re trying. Then add in our bodies / bones/ muscles don’t age like the rest of us makes that even better. Those who prioritize protein and strength training right out of the gate live longer and healthier, stack on to that anti-aging biohacks and there’s almost no question we can live longer if we set out to.

May still get hit by a bus tomorrow, but I’m making old age fight for me. Also don’t forget, for all we (do) know, current medical science still can’t answer why we actually die from getting old! That’s a good thing!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #12

The story as I heard it was that Mme. Calment sold her apartment to a Parisian doctor when she was in her eighties, and in return received lifetime tenancy. So there would have been no inheritance taxes to avoid, in that case.

(KM) #13

Oh opening the can of worms are we? :grin:

Non non, Nanette. Jeanne Calment and her daughter Yvonne were both in and out of a consumption asylum in the mid 1930s right before the chaos of WWII. Jeanne came home, Yvonne, less sick, died on her 36th birthday. What precision … And what luck! Had the situation been reversed, Jeanne’s considerable money would have been subject to the rather usurious French inheritance taxes of the day. The family had recently suffered a similar setback from another family death.

“Jeanne” entered into that reverse mortgage shortly after the old family attorney stopped practicing and she could comfortably hire someone else. No one who actually knew her from the old days was present for the transaction.

Yvonne had a unique genetic fingerprint (Jeanne and her husband Fernand were double second cousins because their paternal grandfathers were brothers and their paternal grandmothers were sisters.) Genetic analysis of “Jeanne’s” records / genetic sampling from her late years could prove that she was not Yvonne, but the genetic material (yes it does exist, saved for the sake of science) is being sequestered.

“Jeanne” ordered a family member to burn all historic photographic evidence of her.

“Jeanne” entered into a real estate transaction shortly before “Yvonne” died, and her signature does not match earlier marriage records.

An acquaintance who knew Jeanne as a young woman was shown a picture of her and said this was not the woman he knew as Jeanne.

What fascinates me is that only a few people would have known for sure. Yvonne’s father, her husband and perhaps her young son, who might have been small enough to be easily misled. Who all lived in the same apartment building. All three died of odd circumstances, starting with dear old dad who died an ?accidental? death from ‘cherry poisoning’ - cyanide in the pits. Another nail in the coffin of fruit, lol. After “Jeanne’s” “husband” died, she continued to live with her “son in law”. …

It 's hard to believe Fernand at age 73 forgot how one eats a cherry. Did he commit suicide? Or just get tired of the strange secret and start threatening to talk?? Imagine living with your father and having to pretend he was your husband, while pretending your husband was your son-inlaw and your son was your grandson. :hushed:

Anyway, the whole thing really captured my imagination. I suppose the evidence is circumstantial but I’m convinced Jeanne was really Yvonne, which would have put her around 99 when she died. Not bad, but not world news, unfortunately…

(Edith) #14

You got me curious and I found this article. It doesn’t answer anything one way or the other, but went into a lot of detail for some of the evidence going both ways.

(KM) #15

My thought to the genealogy folks is that they’re missing the forest for the trees. There was basically no Proof of any of the information recorded. It’s not like a census taker puts a household at gunpoint and demands their ID. Someone says there are 4 people in the household including Jeanne, that’s what gets written down. The household would have intentionally given out the wrong information, so of course that’s what the record says.

I don’t think there was any such thing as “papers” with a photograph on them during the time it would have mattered, and she was a woman - not expected to be the public figure, like a man. Yvonne would have had Jeanne’s entire paper record, I doubt there was an official point where she couldn’t have “proven” she was Jeanne if push came to shove.

I’m not 100% convinced, but considering she lived almost 30 months longer than any certified human and this is an increment ordinarily measured in weeks, I think … it started as tax evasion. “Dad, No One will ever know! It’s perfect! I’ll be in mourning for my “daughter”, I stay in, people will forget me … sure it will be hard but my husband lives in the next apartment and we’ll be rich. I mean really, like, what, I’m going to live to be 100 and suddenly people will think I’m the oldest person who ever lived? Hahahaha …”

#16

Yes, I had an aunt that did and she certainly was not a model for anything other than always seeing the good in people. I had another relative that made it to 98 and was really hoping for 100. Both ladies were in relatively great shape until about 94-95. Which at 50 whatever sounds great but does not sound as great to my parents in the mid 80s.

However, my being able to make it to 100, as I get wheeled out to blow out my candles is not what I am talking about (although if that is my best option I will take it). I want to be able to go bike riding at 100 and do a century, to do research at 110 and to play tennis with my great great grandchildren at 130. I don’t see that happening anytime soon

(Alec) #17

I think we should add Hong Kong to the “Blue Zone” list… it has the highest average age of death after all….

I am sure they eat all that vegan stuff like the other blue zones…. What’s that you say?? Highest meat consumption in the world?? Eh? How does that work Mr Blue Zones??? [cue ELO music….]

(Brian) #18

Be sure to do all of that stuff now, and keep doing it!

I think sometimes people are able to live longer than they choose to. They’ll choose not to go on that bike ride, not because they can’t, but because they don’t feel like it. And then one day they can’t, but it won’t matter cause they didn’t really want to all that bad anyway. Etc.

My mom died in her 80’s. She had a death wish. She got her wish. My dad lived to his mid 90’s and had a major surgery that he couldn’t put off any longer that he ended up with an infection he couldn’t beat. 2 weeks prior, he walked out of his own house on his own power to go to the hospital. He’d been cleaning out the outbuildings cause he didn’t want us to have to do all of that. He’d also been splitting wood and had a winter’s worth plus right there ready. Mentally, the two were night and day. And he read that daily newspaper every day.

(KM) #19

Well, no, not for another 70 something years … :grin:

My mom will be 95 next month. It occurred to me today that while she has lived long enough to theoretically see some amazing advances, like cell phones and the internet, almost literally the world in the palm of your hand, she has outlived her sense of wonder, I think. She doesn’t really understand how most things post 1975 function, or care.

I always wanted to live to be old so I could see what came next. It’s my hope the world keeps its savor for me, that I remain aware and, if slightly less reactive, still plugged in and surprised.

I think it might be the reason I get So pissed off with the modern interference with science. Stop trying to Sell me a load of garbage, and make me amazed with what’s really New in our understanding of how things really work!

#20

My parents are in their mid 80s and are like that except reversed. My Dad almost refused to have heart surgery a few years ago (came through great) and with my mom we know a DNR will almost never be in her future, she believes that where there is life there is hope. Without going into too many details, she is a private pilot, plays tennis and golf a few times a week, and when I went to her gym, they asked me if I was her sister!

@kib1 I think the people born in the 1920s and early 30s are a different generation than those born in the late 30s or 40s. My mom who was born in the late 30s was one of the first people I knew with a computer back in the 1980s. My MIL who was 5 years older (would be around 90) was a lovely woman but not as technically advanced as my mom. MIL did not even learn to drive until her 40s. My mom drove at 16.

However, my grandmother never learned to drive or use a computer (she would have loved it but the double click was hard), but she was always curious and well informed well into her 90s. She never learned to use a washing machine (she had someone who could help her with that so did not need to) but she was a master at the microwave because she liked eating!

I have been doing a bit of longevity research, if you read David Sinclair he makes me think living to 150 for a current 50 year old will be possible soon. I have no idea if it really is but that is what I want