Blue light is this new CICO


(Nigel Williams) #1

Since learning about LCHF and the misinformation related to CICO, good carbs, sugar etc. I am seeing similar issues with concerns over blue light at night.

There seems to be hundreds of sleep specialists who blame blue light, late at night causing people to not get enough sleep and this is even being linked to obesity.

As a kid I knew many children who had to have a landing light on when going to bed. And that is from the 1970s when we weren’t obese.

So is this blue light a real issue or is it because we are obese and ill from bad food?

Like with nutrition I’m looking for solid scientific studies about this blue light issue. Not sleep experts making tenuous links with circadian rhythms. Ideally studies that isolate blue light as the cause of sleep and memory issues.

Thanks to all


(Stickin' with mammoth) #2

Hunh, never heard this one. I use a blue porch light to keep the insects down in the summertime so they don’t get obese sucking my blood but I think that’s another study.

I’m leaning towards this.


#3

I am very skeptical about the blue light hypothesis. I have not seen credible scientific reports to confirm this. I tend to sleep with curtains wide open, and depending on time of year (like summer when the sun is in the sky longer), I go to sleep with lots of blue. It hasn’t stopped me from sleeping at the same time and still reach deep sleep.


(Nigel Williams) #4

My BS antenna is much more sensitive now. If I hear the words “studies suggest” or “people doing ‘A’ are more likely to have issue ‘B’” I wonder is this a money making opportunity or a serious health issue.


#5

I use f.lux on my computer, mainly because it’s less harsh on my eyes. BUT I’m one of those weird people that MUST sleep with the TV on all night. So lots of blue light here. One thing I’ve always done well is sleep. :blush:


(Michelle) #6

I think this is individual. I do strongly believe that lack of sleep leads to poor health (so many things happen hormonally when we sleep) so lack of sleep could lead to more and more cortisol and that could lead to obesity.

I go to sleep with the TV on, I regularly play Words With Friends on my phone, until my eyes are closing. Then I shut everything off and fall right to sleep. Prior to Keto, I was a terrible sleeper. Waking up all times in the night, not falling back to sleep, toss and turn. I bet a ton of cortisol since I wasn’t repairing naturally during my sleep.

Since keto, I sleep so deeply and soundly. Hence, for me, it seems to be all hormonal and now everything is getting back in tip top shape.


(Nigel Williams) #7

It seems that short wavelength light is bad for us, blue light has short wavelength and LEDs create a higher amount of blue light.

So watching a modern LED screen is causing us problems.

The experts have identified we are sleep depirived so superficially it all sound plausible. However, CICO seems plausible even fat clogging drains probably clogs our arteries seems plausible.

Kyz I know many people like you and that predates iPhones and tablets. Perhaps it’s because they are much closer to us.

I’m not dismissing blue light yet, but those talking about it seem to talk in those “everybody knows that blue light is bad for us” way like everybody knows that 3500 kcals is equivalent to 1lb in body weight.

We all nod sagely but nobody ever questions how do we know that?


(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #8

::laughing: : :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


(G. Andrew Duthie) #9

n=1 but I think I sleep better when there is less light (also when the temperature is cooler). And I have a great deal of personal experience that suggests that sitting at a computer or looking at a phone or tablet late into the evening increases the chances that I will be up late. Whether that is in fact due to the LED backlights, or some other related phenomenon, I don’t know.

As for kids with night lights, the big difference with incandescent light bulbs is that unless you specifically sought them out, most light bulbs, particularly night lights, had a warmer color temperature, with much less blue light. Again, not going to argue whether there is adequate science to back up the blue light hypothesis, since I don’t have time right now to look up the cites, but night lights from the 70s are not a data point that adequately refutes the theory.


(Nigel Williams) #10

Good points, makes sense. I certainly prefer darkness my issue is first are we really sleeping worse, if we are is that due to light even blue light, and is their enough blue light to cause this sleep depivation.

Also if we are now using these blue light filters does that solve the sleep deprivation issue?


(Tom) #11

From my days in sleep lab, there were papers showing that “iPad insomnia” (as it was called at the time) is a thing. Studies have been mixed as far as how much blue light is a problem, or whether it’s a problem at all, or if it merely shifts the sleep cycle and doesn’t affect the quality of sleep itself. The following are my hypotheses, based on things.

  1. We had blue light decades ago, but a much larger amount of flourescent and blue or blue/white LEDs are used today (with a corresponding decrease in tungsten filament use), and encountering smaller doses of blue light has a summative effect.
  2. It’s not just blue light, but the fact that TVs and phone and tablet screens are bright, saturated, and we’re staring directly at them that’s a problem.
  3. It’s not that we’re staring directly at a blue light source, it’s that the content on the screen is stimulating (mentally, physically, or otherwise), delaying sleep.
  4. We’re not getting enough sleep for any of the above (or other) reasons, and I recall reading a paper years ago demonstrating that one night of sleep deprivation can induce shockingly high levels of insulin resistance. If blue light is delaying sleep onset, yet we’re getting up at the same time, we will gradually build a sleep debt, and sleeping in a couple of hours on the weekends is not enough to make up for that.
  5. Purely anecdotal observations from my time in sleep lab: People who insist on sleeping with the tv on because they “need the noise”, “like to fall asleep watching something” “I can see my way to the toilet,” etc, had a longer sleep onset time, and had demonstrable arousals (changes to the EEG and breathing that indicate they’ve woken up to a certain extent) that coincided with commercial breaks, scenes that went from dark to light suddenly, beginning/ends of shows, and other general things like explosions, gunfire, screaming, and Aflac commercials. Consequently, we advised our patients to invest in white noise machines or consider using a radio on low, and to get an actual night light if navigation was an issue. People often denied that the TV was waking them, but you can’t really fake an EEG, and just because they don’t consciously remember waking up doesn’t mean it isn’t affecting depth and quality of sleep. And ultimately, whether it’s the blue light or the neighbor’s incessant peacock juggling, disturbed sleep is not healthy for us.

Just my observations.


(Meeping up the Science!) #12

It’s not the new CICO by any means. That’s a gross oversimplification.

Blue light does alter and affect the circadian rhythm. By blue light it indicates LED/electronic screen light. There are hundreds of studies regarding it. By “blue” light they mean LED-emitted light, specifically.

I’d add that any light before bed is typically a bad idea, as is any darkness when you are trying to get awoken. A sleep deficit is related to obesity, because adults secret less growth hormone when we sleep. When we fast, this increases GH utilization and efficiency, so, that is also true, however not in the manner in which media portrays it. Light interferes with the ability to produce melatonin - our day and night cycles are very much synced to the sun.

But what are claims without science? Here are some sources. There are dozens of others.

A layman-appropriate article with credible sources.

An article from PubMed, still easy to read, about the effects of blue/electronic light and how it affects the brain.

More importantly, blue light suppresses melatonin in humans. Melatonin is heavily indicated in circadian rhythm management.

LED/blue light exposore also decreases cognitive performance among other things.


(Nigel Williams) #13

Great detail.

So even with the blue light filter the sleep maybe impacted if the content we are absorbing is too stimulating.

I suspect youngsters tend to watch more stimulating stuff whereas I like to read on my iPhone ( with blue filter on) similar to reading a book with side light on. After 10 mins of reading a book or my iPhone my eyes droop, and It’s time to sleep.

That seems more plausible and more difficult to control for kids. They must either read or the tech is banned in bed.


(Stickin' with mammoth) #14

If I could just get them to target my ass this summer…


(Meeping up the Science!) #15

We were told in neuro that any light can disrupt (or delay, perhaps is a better phrase) the circadian rhythm. This may explain my graduate school years and exhausted mornings…

That’s fascinating about the TV and waking up. I don’t doubt it, though. I have no idea how people can sleep with a TV on. Even the smallest bit of light bugs me, though.


(G. Andrew Duthie) #16

My understanding of the theory behind the mechanism is that it’s related to melatonin production. Blue light, being closer to the color of sunlight, is said to reduce the production of melatonin in the evening, making it harder for us to wind down, and potentially affecting sleep quality. Whether or not we are sleep deprived is arguably a separate issue. Even if we sleep 8 hours, but shifted from what would normally be the case without the impact on melatonin, that may have an impact on sleep quality.

I use blue-blocking reading glasses at night, along with an LED lamp that has a warm-color mode for evening use, and can be dimmed to pretty low levels. I also typically take some melatonin shortly before I’m ready to go to sleep. I rarely have issues with getting to sleep quickly, unless I have been staring at a screen without my color-shifting reading glasses. I do use f.lux like @Kyz, as well as Twilight on my Android devices. Not sure I can tell a huge difference with those, TBH, but since they are free to download, I figure it doesn’t hurt.


(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #17

Ditto.
I have “blackout” curtains. Did without them for years. Sorry I did. I sleep SOOOOOOO much better now!!!
I also have to sleep with a small fan running. For the white noise.


(Keto in Katy) #18

I love f.lux.


(Tom) #19

Oh, I quite agree that blue light affects circadian rhythm, I was just tossing out other hypotheses that I may or may not completely buy, but felt like there’s probably something to. :smile:


(Meeping up the Science!) #20

I always love reading your replies, Tom. I also am totally jealous of working in a sleep lab, FYI…