Beginner question (high fat, low protein and carb)?


(Sebas Tien) #1

Hi

I m new in the keto world and I d be curious for some advice

I m 41, 200 lbs, 6 ft, BMR at around 2 000 cal per day, 22% body fat

I was a heavy carb eater, very bad…

I m aiming for 175 lbs, 15% body fat

It been almost 2 weeks since I m aiming at getting in ketose, so far, no there, keto strip testing…

I m aiming at 1 700 cal per day, with 25% protein, 5% carb and 70% fat.

My 2 questions would be:

What would be a good food, with lots of good fats, but with low proteine and carb? It hard to keep the proteine low and I understand that proteine can become glucose, thus preventing ketosis

How long does it take to reach ketosis? Can it take 2 weeks event with the proper macro?

Thanks a lot for your advice

Seb


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #2

Eat sub-20 grams of carbs and you will be in ketosis. Do a 3-day water fast and you’ll get there quickest. Don’t worry about protein. Best wishes.


#3

You get into ketosis in a few days at most if your carbs are low enough. Percentage doesn’t matter, it must be low enough for your body in grams.

I wouldn’t call 25% protein low at all, not even with 1700 kcal, it’s already high and not adequate in my case, you probably need more protein though. But it doesn’t matter what we call “low”, you should get enough!
I do high protein (about 25-30% not like it’s informative but my calories are all over the place anyway) and it’s fine for me. Some people should keep the protein just adequate but it won’t get converted into sugar without a need (and I don’t actually care anyway, I want to feel good and avoid overeating and it happens just fine if I keep my carbs low, 180 g protein or not for my short, not very active body).

I eat mostly fatty meat, cheese and eggs. They are rich in protein as they should, how would I get my adequate (to high) protein? :smiley: Even I use some added fat and cream, even some sausage and other fattier things so they balance out the more protein rich items but if not, oh well, I eat a bit more protein then, it works for me.
Many people are fine with lots of added fat. When I ate vegetables, it was easy for me too, not so much on carnivore but we are all different.
25% protein is easy, you don’t need to add excessive amount of fat or something… The same amount of protein (in grams, of course) for 2 times as many calories? That would be a very different situation… You probably should eat fattier when you will start maintain or maybe bulk… Now you don’t need that fatty food, just very normal ones from my viewpoint.


#4

80/20 ground beef has the close to the macros you are looking for. Sans carbs of course. :blush:


#5

If you’ve kept net carbs to less than 20, you’re in ketosis typically within 24 to 48 hours. Are you using the urine strips? They are designed for type 1 diabetics to test for an excess excretion of one type of ketone body. They aren’t a reliable indicator of nutritional ketosis.

Your macros should be in grams, not percentages. Your need for proteins should be primarily based on your lean body mass, not as a percent of caloric intake. Too much protein is not a practical issue.

I see keto as simply “Minimal carbs. Adequate proteins. Fats as needed (for satiety).”

First, determine your macros, keeping in mind that the proteins macro is a lower limit, while the fats and carbs macros are upper limits.

So, two priorities:

  • You need to keep carbs low to stay in ketosis.
  • You need to make sure you get enough proteins. Your body needs them. Being significantly low on them over an extended period can cause the body to get it elsewhere. That may mean break-down of muscle tissue. Not good.

After that, ideally, it should be hunger that determines how many fats and additional proteins (and thus calories) that you need to be eating, if only because leaving yourself hungry all the time means keto won’t be sustainable. You don’t need to eat all of the fats macro if you’re not hungry, because the body can make up the difference with stored body fat.


(Laurie) #6

Okay, you want 1700 calories.

To get 25% of calories from protein, you need 106 grams of protein. (This is not low protein.)

To get 70% of calories from fat, you need 132 grams of fat.

To get 5% of calories from carbs, you need 21 grams of carbs. As you know, less than 20 grams is usually recommended.

A pound of meat will give you the approximate amount of protein and fat you are aiming for.

Use a nutrition calculator until you get used to the amounts. If you aren’t getting enough fat, you can add butter, Cambozola cheese, etc.


(Bacon by any other name would taste just as great.) #7

The notion that excess protein is automatically converted into glucose is a speculative hypothesis that has not been borne out by later research. Gluconeogenesis, it turns out, is a fairly well-regulated process, because the body does not actually need all that much glucose, though it does need some. Think of gluconeogenesis as being related more to demand than to supply. Besides, amino acids are not all equally convertible into glucose. They are generally divided into the glucogenic (more easily converted into glucose) and the lipogenic (more easily converted into a fatty acid), with a few that are both.

As for entering ketosis, it can happen in a matter of hours. Once we stop eating an excessive amount of carbohydrate, the liver will begin producing ketone bodies. Excessive carbohydrate intake stimulates the secretion of insulin, which is the hormone that inhibits ketogenesis. Once insulin drops low enough to permit ketogenesis, we quickly enter ketosis.

By the way, a ketogenic diet is a moderate protein diet, not a low-protein diet. If you limit your carbohydrate intake to 20 g/day or less and keep your protein and fat in roughly equal proportion by weight (which is 31% protein and 69% fat by caloric value), you will be fine. You may find it difficult to shed excess fat by deliberately restricting food intake to a particular caloric limit, because short rations is the signal to the body that we are undergoing a famine. To convince the body to shed excess fat, we need to give our body an abundance of food, by eating to satisfy our hunger.


(Sebas Tien) #8

Thanks a lot folks for all the advices, it my first post here and i really appreciate the feedback, thanks


#10

With a 2000 RMR 1700 is a good sane amount, but you need to eat enough protein to sustain your muscle mass (possibly gain it depending on goals) you shouldn’t eat “low” protein. Ketosis is from the lack of carbs, not from eating high fat.

Wrong, protein isn’t going to turn into cake when you eat it. No reason to fear it. Gluconeogenesis has become a scare tactic. When it happens it’s demand driven, not supply driven. Just keep your carbs in check, make sure you’re getting in enough protein and let the fats fill in the blanks.

With normal physical activity about 72hrs or so, your liver can only hold so much glycogen and if your RMR is 2000 that should be enough time. The glycogen in your muscles doesn’t go against you. They keep it until you burn it off using them.


#11

I use a free app called “Carb Manager”. It’s not perfect, but it helps me keep on track and I don’t have to worry about the math. You might check it out.


#12

Very familiar with it, I spend some time with premium memberships to all the popular ones. I wound up staying with cronometer because of the custom reporting, micronutirent breakdowns and integration with a lot of different fitness trackers. Nothing wrong with Carb Manager at all though, one of the coolest features it has is pasting in a website and it’ll pull the whole recipe and put it in your custom list which is awesome. One thing I will say about it though is when you’re adding foods make sure you’re picking official listings and not user submitted ones, they have a tendency to be way off.


#13

Yes, I always use the “common foods” list, rather than user-submitted. I don’t treat it as god, but it really does help me stay on track.