Been Keto for 2+ years - starting to gain weight!

long-term
#23

As a 100% fat-adapted gal at 2.5 years LCHF/keto - I’ve found that TMAD + regular resistant starch (white basmati fried in ghee, 1/4-1/2 cup which is only 10-20 g carbs) or the high fiber carbs of of 1/2-1 sweet potato in a general high alkaline context (daily veg filling 2/3 of my plate at least) has been very helpful for my metabolic agility, mental stamina, and ongoing recomp. But I am a midlife female and what works for me may be overkill for you.

No, RS isn’t obesigenic (not talking about weight, talking about measurements) for me when in a proper LCHF/keto framework aimed at keeping carbs under 100-150 grams total. RS and fiber get processed in the lower intestine, by feeding the good bacteria which then produce massive butyrate which then fuels fat-burning, etc. Some folks need to never go beyond 50g total - but many high intensity weightlifters and well fat-adapted midlife females find that keeping the metabolism agile and the microbiome well-fed boosts recomp.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the fat recomp process involves phases of water-laden fat cells which have higher volume, more weight, and are more wiggly. Assuming that you have new fat may be a wrong assumption. Also, the gut bacteria when healthy comprise about 6 pounds - and restoration of a healthy gut is a very good thing. In addition, it can take a few years for the body to restore healthy lean mass (bone marrow, bone, muscle, tendons, connective tissue) depending on one’s collagen and protein intake.

('Jackie P') #24

Psst :shushing_face: pecangate :slight_smile:

#25

It’s not fasting at all. Actually, you’re eating every day. That’s OMAD. You’re having one meal a day. So I don’t understand where the fasting falls in there…

#26

Flexibility regained opens doors.

(Bunny) #27

So therefore butyrate is non-ketogenic thus we should not eat butter?

Now that makes sense?

Hmmm!

Unbelievable?

Makes me wonder how people even get a drivers license, I feel not so safe anymore! Lol

(Bunny) #28

Good question I think the quality of the RS starch is more important than anything but I do not think we need that much and I would not even count RS starch as a carb because it is a type of sugar that cannot bypass the intestinal wall like sugars can and it ultimately ends up as a ketone.

I do not measure my resistant starch intake, I just eat a little every now and then!

This is an additional layer of protection from carbohydrate overload we all fear before it reaches the stages of BG, insulin, glucagon and IGF-1…and all that jazz ect.

(Bunny) #29

Actually I feel really good was listening to John Denver’s Rocky Mountain High Today!

(Ellenor Bjornsdottir) #30

That is a false equivalence, Bun.

Resistant starch is a starch. It is not a fatty acid like butyric or stearic.

It’s also said to be a soluble fibre, which means that it’ll feed strains of gut bacteria that tend to support a more sedated and antiketogenic state.

I’m forced to echo this sentiment.

Resistant starch should be counted gram for gram as net carb for the purpose of a ketogenic diet. It does not end up ultimately as a ketone; instead, it usually ends up being slightly less glucose than the same quantity of non-resistant starch, and it also feeds gut bacteria, which, if you use common sense, would have evolved to drive you to eat more of the thing that’s feeding them, and to move less. (yes, I believe that the entire microbiome is pathogenic for those with weight problems, and that the only reason diversity is good is because there’s less activity overall. feel free to challenge my reasoning; I will not defend it for lack of time.)

(Bunny) #31

Again back to drivers license issue, do they even have driving tests anymore?

I guess you missed the part about the quality of the resistant starch, soil composition etc. seems to make a big difference and making it yourself so you know exactly what’s in it?

You want to make it real resistant to digestion?

(Ellenor Bjornsdottir) #32

The driving tests have gotten harder than ever. I don’t think you’d be able to pass them nowadays, madam.

(Bunny) #33

I imagine the agriculture in ancient times or wild plants eaten back then had much stronger resistant starches and less sugars?

I suppose it could be due to hybreeding in horticulture to make them sweeter, that is done now days? Takes around ten years to change a plants composition to a much more potent form of the original plant.

Irregardless I think that is the missing carbohydrate that is said in the rhetoric as ”…not essential for human life…” unless you want to get diabetes if you do slip up and start eating carbohydrates? Then your up the creek without a paddle because you have no butyrate unless you eating butter? Because you just possibly killed all the butyrate producing bacteria by eating only meat?

(Ellenor Bjornsdottir) #34

When was the last time you tested your ketones, how many hours since you had eaten, and what had you eaten then?

I’ve unconditionally unsubscribed from this thread. I’ve run out of patience for Paleo resistant starch cultists.

(Bunny) #35

That’s something I use to do all the time to test how low I could get my glucose (got it down to between 22 and 27 for long periods of time without feeling ill at all but I don’t like to encourage that) but now I do it occasionally and was using four different meters for accuracy as you can see below but ever since they came out with those Libres, that leaves me envious, I’m not wealthy…lol

Here is a post I did a while back for when glucose numbers get screwy?

Blood Glucose Monitoring Protocols

(Bunny) #36

Don’t leave yet your supposed to be educating us about this obesogenic resistant starch as pointed out earlier?

I was really starting to like your points? :slightly_frowning_face:

(Bunny) #37

I don’t think I feel driven to eat resistant starch out of instinct from feeding the bacteria that produces the butyrate? Probably has a lot more to do with the availability of the resistant starch (food) in plants when in their original form in ancient times?

Potatoes or tubers probably have not changed much other than ground soil composition and chemicals in the soil and around it?

But that is an interesting point!

Then I guess you would have killed off all your butyrate producing bacteria and maybe it would take a while to build it back up again?

Daisy had an interview with a gal who could not burn any body fat until she started adding grass fed butter to her diet?

I got to thinking more deeply about this and she was probably processing every little carbohydrate she was eating and it was just being stored as fat even though she was keto, in other words she was not burning body fat faster than what she was eating in the fatty acid turnover pool[1][2]?

Footnotes:

[1] “…Earlier studies suggest that triglycerides in adipose tissue form two distinct pools with high or low turnover rates, respectively (13, 14). …” “…Small pools with high turnover are more important for short term (days or weeks) rather than long term (years) triglyceride turnover. Mean lipid age was 1.6 years…” …More

[2] Is dietary fat burned before stored fat on a ketogenic diet?

(April Harkness) #38

I gave my one answer…but it should have been two… 2nd answer- OMAD!!!

('Jackie P') #39

Thank you @FrankoBear, that’s it. Makes so much sense!

(Carolus Holman) #40

Third Day “Back on the Wagon” I measured my Ketone level on day 1 of my return to Keto, they were at 0. I eliminated, applying advice from y’all, and am happy to say my Ketones went back to 2.9 to 3.2 over the past 2 days. I already look less bloated, and I believe I am back on course. Somethings I discovered so far: Habanero Tabasco Sauce has sugar in it, as does Chipotle Tabasco sauce! I had been using these to spice up my meals. I also eliminated some meat based snacks the showed <1 gm of carbs, these also had some amount of sugar in them, and nuts, nuts have been eliminated! Taking advice I implemented a “No NET carbs measurement” sneaky how these products have a net carbs of like 3g but total carbs are like 14 before netting out for “fiber”. I eliminated dairy foods, just to remove this from the equation, even though cheese is usually safe, I know from reading that some cheeses are adding sugar for some reason! I am not even sure they hav to list it as an ingredient.
I feel better, almost overnight, I expected this to take a week but within 4 days I was back to showing ketones!

Being on this way of eating I wasn’t as vigilant as I should have been, believing I knew generally that I was eating the right stuff, but for me even a small amount of carbs was causing weight gain! I guess I am one of those people that has to maintain a very strict regimen or pay the consequences.

Some good advice, put on some clothes you haven’t worn in a while when you landed at our goal weight you know the ones in the back of the closet, these clothes don’t lie, they will help get you back on track!

(Hyperbole- best thing in the universe!) #41

Thank you for sharing this experience! I am at about a year and a half. I’ve maintained well for a year now… but would be happy at a bit lower weight. (Happy now too, just seeing that maybe I can be slimmer, now that I’ve done well where I am now.) So sharing this challenge at this point in your journey is valuable to more than a few of us, I am sure.

#42

WOW I am thru the roof happy for you!

You caught some troubles, hit it in great precision to go back to basics, truly and honestly looked at your food decisions and within a few days you were back to feeling so much better. I am thrilled with your report :slight_smile:

Yea never a fan of net carbing. A carb is a carb to me all the time LOL

I am so glad back to basics has you grounded again.
Little things like processed sauces, dips, etc. I have trouble too with that. I took the time to make my own…you know make the spice mix or sauce mix zero carb instead of buying the brand at the store that has more sneaky carbs in it then one thinks. That way I got to keep my little tastes I like with my food.

ROCK ON!