Bariatric Surgery: Death Rates and Cause of Death within 5 Years Post OP


#61

That’s very prudent. Please let us know if there is anything we can do to help you on your keto/weight loss journey. I have a great deal of weight still to lose, but have had excellent results with keto and fasting.


(Edith) #62

Of course, one look at their bulging muscles, I’m sure, would make the doctor’s know they are not obese even if the BMI said so.


(Nasir) #63

Thanks. I started this year and have lost about 37lbs so far (SW 340). Slowed/Stalled a bit now but I am sure positive changes are still happening in body and I will KCKO. I am doing lazy keto though and do sometimes eat complex carbs (love red kidney beans and legumes) but I do OMAD/IF most days and occasional 3-5 day fasts as well.


#64

Same here. I love beans, so eat them occasionally. I also eat fresh fruit (aside from berries) once in a while. Life is a balance, you have to live. I avoid grains, starches and simple carbs, but sometimes indulge in complex carbs.


(Susan) #65

Congrats on your discovery! May it heal your life!
I have watched many episodes of My 600 lb Life and I never understand how some people can lose so much weight before the surgery and still go through with the surgery.
I sincerely hope more and more people discover Keto and fasting and not have to put themselves through the surgery.


(Cindy) #66

I think it’s amazing how much power words have in general. They can be emotional triggers, indicate your age, show biases, etc. Personally, I’ve never been very sensitive to words, but I can remember when I first started working as a deputy. Told my partner that I needed a “bathroom” break. He evidently thought that was funny.
All the men had different phrases for it. So I said “What? Ok, I need to take a piss? A leak? Go pee-pee? Go to the potty? Stop for a download? Is that any better?” At the time, it was really more about showing that I could take a joke, could be as crude as they were, etc.


(Nasir) #67

Yeah I am puzzled as well. As part of eligibility for bariatric surgery on NHS, people are asked to lose 10% weight first and I always thought that if I could lose 10% weight without surgery, why wouldn’t I just carry on losing weight that way?


(Alec) #68

Because it’s harder. They think the operation is a magic cure (when it isn’t).


(Nasir) #69

Yeah people don’t realise they still need to put as much effort in if not more and have risks/complications on top as well.


(Splotchy) #70

Nasir, do have a listen to the DietDoctor podcast last week with Dr Scher, featuring bariatric surgeon Robert Cywes. Dr Cywes used to be obese himself and lost weight with LCHF. He hugely encourages patients to LCHF instead of surgery, even tho he could make more money from doing the surgery! He strongly promotes the psychological support to help people stick with LCHF.

Re surgery he acknowledges there is short term success. However this reverses after a couple of years with weight gain if the patient has not adjusted the content of their diet - ie if they are having sugary drinks, and high carb foods, even in the smaller quantities, the body regains fat.

I work in a healthcare setting and have seen this. Plus post op many people get some nutrient deficiencies, low potassium, acid problems… plus there is the risk of anaesthesia/surgery complications.

It IS successful short term in weight loss and diabetes reversal. But long term? Other risks?

Cywes is informed, experienced as both bariatric surgeon and formerly obese person, and clearly considers the psyche as well as the physiology of his patients. He did three equally interesting podcasts with Zoë Harcombe. Well worth a listen.


(Lisa marie t) #71

I had gastric bypass in 2007. Unfortunately it was a traumatic time as my stepdad I found out after I got home was dying from emphysema.they didnt tell me because mom knew I’d cancel surgery …so i associate trauma n bad time.
When i had surgery …first of all i knew it was a tool to help me.not magic pill.
I know some ladies n a guy who had surgery around my time. We didnt have support group here in p.g we didnt have info to help us to be successful. But we had online group.
Out of the 5 of us top of my head…we all gained weight some , all or more.
Long story short it’s not a easy surgery.i dont regret having it …but had I known keto eating then I’m.sure I’d be more successful.
There was a couple ladies became anorexic n struggled bad.
1 died from asthma attack she was only in 30s
My good friend he was my mentor…he had skin surgeries in Argentina…almost died.his scars were terrible.he committed suicide 4 yrs ago.he was self conscious…he made his wife leave…he was a nurse.n knew he was depressed. All related in a knot by surgeries
Dr did tell me gastric bypass is a sensitive surgery. Meaning with my depression I’ll struggle.
Theres a risk with any surgery a person has.
My friend went to Mexico n had the gastric sleeve done…she had complications but her friend didnt. She lost 160 lbs total. Her friend not hardly anything.
Even tho 85%of stomach is taken out it can easily stretch n quickly.
My surgery the RNY the stomach is cut to size of egg.more defined than just stomach stapling from 80s.104 cms of my intestines removed.supposed to have removed gallstones bladder but didnt.
It’s not a magic pill.theres honeymoon stage the first year to lose ur weight n quickly.then after surgery it’s just as hard to lose and maintain as a regular person.i lost 100 lbs n 46 inches with surgery.on keto at my best I lost 70 lbs n 70 inches…I’m struggling right now…I’m a stress eater I sabotage myself I want to lose weight but scared.but I will get the 80 lbs off I’m hopeful .
I feel guilty because the stuff we need is expensive.here in Bc.but I try to do best I can.


(Hyperbole- it’s the best thing in the universe! ) #72

Do you know who Amy Berger is? Her channel on YouTube is Tuit Nutrition. I think you would love her, but that is only because I do. Her latest video was Keto on a Budget. She also did this video on Keto & Bariatric Surgery.


#73

Our food-spending has gone down by 50%, maybe even more. I don’t know where you live, but keto is actually cheaper in the long run, as long as you eat real food. You don’t need flours, sweeteners, replacement foods, etc.


(Susan) #74

I always have to do a tight budget at our house, and me going Keto has not increased our food bill at all. I do make adjustments, and try to do Keto economically, while still adhering to all the rules. I still make meals for my hubby and kids that are non-Keto (or they have a combo of some of my Keto foods as well). It is cheaper in the long run because it saves our lives =) as well.

I am glad that I found out about Keto so I could get off the Yo-Yo diet merry-go-round that I had been doing most of my life.


(Lisa marie t) #75

2 weeks ago chicken breasts were 35.00 for 6.the chicken thighs 29.00 then it went down.i use stevia drops over the packs.mct oil is a one time buy.but 30.00 for bottle.maybe powder cheaper?
I dont eat carbs. Lots of salads.15.00 for flat of 50 eggs …I’eat eggs all the time .
I love keto


(PJ) #76

I have known maybe a dozen people who had bariatric surgery.
Most were <370 pounds.
All but three of them were dead within a few years.
The two who lived were the same size they were prior to surgery within a few years.
One was still heavy but much thinner and seemed relatively ok.

Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove (a molecular biologist who ran the genetics lab at Rockefeller U. – he’s the guy whose team discovered the hormone Leptin so he’s kind of a science rock star) was once saying in an interview that in the metabolic ward, after gastric bypass surgery, their patients could only eat about 700 calories a day. And they would lose a lot of weight. And then stop losing. And they were still significantly obese (sorry: FAT :smiley: ) when this happened. And that was it. They just didn’t lose more. He was saying if you put him on that diet he’d skinny into nothing and that this really indicated that there was something significantly different about the metabolism of the morbidly obese fat.

Since they are supposed to eat a certain way after surgery I could never figure out why they didn’t simply attempt to eat that way for a year before surgery to prove they could. Since first off, if they couldn’t, then the surgery a/ might not work or b/ might do them even more harm. And secondly, if they could, the process would probably demonstrate a weight loss that might make them rethink having someone cut them open instead.

I hope for the very best for anybody who does this. Some people have positive outcomes. I hope our friends here on the forum who have done this do.

PS on the chart way up near the top, Nick, does that suggest that “all cause mortality” is nearly 20% in five years? Also: was there a chart that went through the mortality grouped by % of obesity?


#77

If you don’t mind me asking, of course-those who died, did they die due to weight-related illnesses, surgery complications or some other cause?


(PJ) #78

I don’t know all their details. Some of them from “ongoing issues” that they didn’t have before the surgery so I assume were related (although of course official stats would say they weren’t related). Ironically, none of them died of diabetes or its primary issues, despite that I think about 4 of them were diabetic, because the surgery promptly resolved that.

Curiously, when I had open heart surgery, a number of issues I had that were food intolerance issues – asthma and allergies – vanished. Utterly. For about… oh maybe a few months. Then they returned. I think that some surgeries just shock the body so hard that the body is so busy prioritizing all its “reactionary” molecules to saving your life and recovering, it’s just ignoring all the other crap because it’s farther down the priority list or something.

Rather like how I can react to grain glutens (different grains in different ways) from leaky gut, but apparently it exhausts my immune system. Then if I stay completely off them for a month let alone six months, and THEN I eat something – even the tiniest amount in something – I wake up feeling like I’ve been hit by a truck. I moan and whimper for 30-90 minutes depending on whether it was wheat or rice. And if it was wheat (30), I then ‘wheeze’ asthmatically for a few days, and then cough that crap out for the next few. Yet if I eat it regularly for awhile, the reaction goes down, and I do eventually have ‘chronic bronchitis’, severe allergies and acid reflux kicks up, true, but I cannot perceive the difference between how crappy I felt one day vs. the next. I suspect it’s because my immune system is too spread thin and overworked. And if I give it time to heal, then the Marine 5th Regiment comes in to kick some ass in the night.

Anyway perhaps that is why diabetes tends to recede instantly with the surgery (so I hear) – but can come back.

I might add that I don’t think it’s fair to expect, for example, “that person had pancreas issues before the surgery, so if they die from it after the surgery, well, they already had that problem.” Or whatever other organ or issue. Because if someone goes on low carb and loses the say, 150# they might lose after the surgery, usually most of those things ARE healed.

Curing pounds doesn’t cure organs and systems, and adding great trauma and then chronic malnutrition to a system likely malnourished to begin with (given its got metabolic syndrome or it wouldn’t be very fat) seems like it would aggravate not help the underlying issues.

I hope that people who are low-carb and have done this, will be getting vastly more good nourishment from the food – because meats for example have such a rich array of nutrition compared to the SAD diet – and have a totally different and really good outcome.

PJ


#79

Our bodies really do work in mysterious ways, there is so much we don’t know.

I’ve been on keto for a little over a year now and I’ve noticed so many changes for the better. I’m histamine intolerant and for a few years BK (before keto ;)) I was noticing worsening symptoms…everything I ate bothered me, I had hives on my face, itchy skin, bloating, migraines, etc and the outbreaks of symptoms were getting closer and closer together, lasting longer and longer. I watched “what’s the wheat” and realized that it’s not just histamine intolerance, I had leaky gut. After eliminating and eliminating some more, I decided I had enough and tried keto-the best decision of my life :slight_smile: My body is finally calming down and I’m feeling so much better, but it took almost a year.

We can only push our bodies so far and some mistakes we made take much longer to heal. Some bodies just can’t fight anymore, no matter what we do. :frowning:


(PJ) #80

Meerkatsandy, I just saw something yesterday that said many people who have histamine intolerance have issues with methylation (there is some gene that relates to this). Might not be your case you might want to look into that.